As someone’s Italian/Scottish grandmother might say, Positano’s is in a bit of a kerfuffle.
On Thursday the restaurant asked the Planning and Zoning Commission for permission to put tables on its outdoor patio.
The terrace — sitting serenely on the Sound — has been there since 2000. The restaurant — catty-corner from Elvira’s, in the Old Mill section of town — has been there far longer. Old-timers remember it as Cafe de la Plage.
A no-brainer, right?
Wrong.
The patio is illegal. The owners never sought town approval. Outdoor dining is prohibited in residential areas.
And, oh yeah: Part of it was built on town land. Well, sand. Anyway: We own the beach.
The terrace at Positano’s juts into town-owned land.
Dozens of nearby residents oppose the request to place 4 tables on the patio, adding 10 seats to the restaurant for a total of 62. They cite “noise, commotion and congestion,” according to the Westport News, along with inadequate and illegal parking.
Yet at least one resident — 89-year-old Allen Raymond — thinks the proposal is fine.
A view of Positano’s from Hillspoint Road.
Positano’s land-use consultant, Mel Barr, claims that because the economy has driven business down 30 percent from a few years ago, the move to outdoor dining is a necessary “shot in the arm.”
Neighbors might respond it’s a kick in the teeth.
The P&Z did not vote on the application — officially, a lease of town property to the restaurant to allow use of the patio — and public comments are officially closed.
But that doesn’t mean “06880” readers can’t weigh in. Click on your preference in the poll below. Mangia — or not?
Who owns the street or parking lot where the new “pop up” cafes have been situated ?
The town. A story on La Villa’s pop-up seating will be posted later today. (Restaurants apply for permission to use the street parking spaces for pop-up seating.)
On June 14th, 2012 the Planning & Zoning Commissioners voted Positano’s proposal DOWN 6-0 !!! They had all the information available to them to make an INFORMED decision.
Putting aside the illegal nature of this land grab, our zoning regulations do NOT permit outdoor dining in residential areas–PERIOD. And for good reason: the noise is simply unfair to neighbors. And in this case, the parking situation is already intolerable. The neighbors are already “treated” to the constant noise of engines starting and doors slamming as the parking valets try to reposition the cars every time a patron arrives or leaves. I don’t live near there, but I have sympathy for those folks. They deserve some consideration. Even our police chief has said this is a bad idea.
The Police Department, which generally supports most requests, has some problems with this one.
First, there is an increase in capacity in seating. Although the application states that it will be a very modest increase there is nothing that will prevent that modest number from going higher. As it is now there is no parking for the capacity they currently have. The Old Mill/Compo Hill area is a nightmare for traffic and parking during the warmer months, which is the time frame this extra capacity is requested for. We receive many, many complaints from neighbors regarding illegally parked vehicles, no counting the times our officers come up on them without a complaint.
As we have cut our staffing we have not been able to continue the same level of service to this area as we once did, and that has only made the illegal parking problem worse – no enforcement equals more abuse of the existing parking restrictions. I foresee this doing little more than adding to a problem that already exists. Since I am sure the question will arise, the answer to any requests for the number of times we respond to that area on traffic and parking complaints is not one we will be able to provide in any great detail as they are not always (or often) logged. While these problems are certainly not all attributable to the restaurant, it is a factor.
Second, “no music is contemplated” is not the same as no music. This seems to be just vague enough to allow for anything from recorded music to live music. This location is right in the middle of a neighborhood and my fear is that it wilt ultimately create more work for us responding to noise complaints. The other locations mentioned in the application are not comparable in this regard.
Dale E. Call Chief of Police
Westport Police Department 50 Jesup Road
Westport, CT 06880
No one has mentioned the valets first fill up the public parking lot on Hillspoint (illegal) before they use their own lot depriving the public of access to Old Mill beach. I have observed 5 tables filled and no cars in their lot.
Turn em down! Allen Raymond also thought giving away Old Mill parking was a good idea and he supports the new YMCA location with cash. Good thing Diane Farrell ain’t still here. She destroyed Allen’s Clam House, an income producing, tax paying, job creating business and turned it into a weed parking lot. The weekends are a cluster duck down there as cars park everywhere or are valeted everywhere. The business is off? Lower prices and change the menu. NO PATIO!
I agree that maybe they should lower their prices and have specials to draw people in. It is a beauitful location but the food is not great. It’s too bad that Westport doesn’t have more waterfront dining.
Funny how people are all for development, noise, traffic conjestion…as long as its not in their own backyards! This patio should NOT be allowed and was never approved to begin with! Commercial buildings smack in the middle of lovely homes on residental streets, homes demolished to make parking lots, overdevelopment where there is no parking, traffic considerations, etc. Enough damaging development to our Town and neighborhoods already!
“Commercial buildings smack in the middle of lovely homes on residental streets,………”
Exactly!!! I Agree!
Elvira’s should be shut down immediately!
The traffic, congestion, and parking nightmares this establishment creates right in the middle of a lovely residential neighborhood is reprehensible!
Who do they think they are running a commercial business in a residential neighborhood!?
To clarify, Elvira’s has outdoor EATING – which is allowed, and closes usually around dusk. Positano’s has requested the prohibited outdoor DRINKING & DINING and is open until late. Listening to the happy sounds of neighborhood kids eating pizza is very different from that of imbibing adults being served by a staff happy to have a bill inflated with lots of drinking.
Have a heart. Elvira’s outdoor eating is fully allowed – NO CONTEST.
“Listening to the happy sounds of neighborhood kids eating pizza is very different from that of imbibing adults being served by a staff happy to have a bill inflated with lots of drinking.”
I think children would be MORE annoying to listen too.
And what is the difference between “EATING” and “DINING”??
You are sitting at a table consuming food and beverages in bothe cases.
Wrecker says he doesn’t like the sounds of happy children… Westport is not a good place for people that don’t like children. Most of the Town’s budget (the taxes we pay), are focused on our children. Wrecker would probably be happier living someplace else. Maybe less angry too.
Your increasing sarcasm seems to be a manifestation of the realisation that you are wrong…and hence frustrated by that fact.
* make that “congestion!”
I am typically not one to cry foul on an issue like this, but stand in agreement with the majority who are against it. Besides, the patio is ILLEGAL. That trumps everything else and should nullify this entire argument.
What compensation does the town receive from the restaurants who use town land for these “pop-up” cafes?
Also, to blame the economy on a 30% loss of business is pretty hilarious considering how packed just about every other restaurant in town is. Perhaps Positano should contact Gordan Ramsey instead of the P&Z about their drop-off in business.
there are 200+ bedroom windows within 250 feet of the town beach area that Positano’s wants to lease…Imagine having to tell your kid ” no, honey, focus on your homework, I know it sounds like a party outside, but really, just try to focus on your homework.”
“there are 200+ bedroom windows within 250 feet of the town beach area that Positano’s wants to lease”
I’m calling B.S. on this one!
Way to over-exagerate there “mom”
Wrecker, where are you from? There are more than 100 homes surrounding the beach – most with more than 2 bedrooms. 200+ bedrooms is a cautious, conservative estimate. Or perhaps, math was never your strong suit?
Oh Please!
Those “100” homes do not immediately border the restaurant in question!
It’s more like 10….and that is a huge stretch. Five would be more accurate.
Oh and BTW…..Elvira’s has seating for 24 at its 4 Picnic tables…..more than DOUBLE what the restaururant is proposing.
“restaurant”
clearly YOU are not from the immediate area…there is no exaggeration here..
I’m 14 and I personally do not want people outside my house, possibly drunk making lots of noise. It’s almost summer time and I wouldn’t feel comfortable in a bathing suit, down near a patio where they are serving alcohol!
“It’s almost summer time and I wouldn’t feel comfortable in a bathing suit, down near a patio where they are serving alcohol!”
OMG!!
What will you do when you go to……..the beach!!??
Wear a Burka?
So lets see… The town rents out bits of the beach for private use… until there’s no beach left to rent out? Or, more imprtantly, for the public to use? What part of “public” in “public beach” don’t your understand Dan?? This is a very disengenuous set of survey questions. I expect more from a man of your stature. Shame on you Dan Woog! Oh – wait a minute! Perhaps the Woog-ster wants to set up his own beach-side concession? Very clever of you old man! I thought you saw yourself as a fair minded journalist though… Anything goes in the pursuit of entertainment and to sell copy – is that it?. Dangerous precedent this – a nasty move is afoot to take our public beach from us Westporters. No so fast! No way!
Shame on Dan? The survey is meant to be a joke! Surely your comments are meant in jest ? If so, good one! If not, talk to ya later…
All fans of The Dan appreciate the humor – especially the Woogster!
You scared me 🙂
You’re kidding, right?
Can I bid on renting the beach too? I have always wanted my own private beach. Maybe this is my chance? How can I bid? How much will it cost me? Will this be bid on eBay? The bidding will be open and fair, right?
In times like this the total net gain in revenues to the Town of Westport is the most important thing to consider. How much revenue will this lease contribute to the town’s coffers? Certainly by taking a stake in the restaurant, it will be incumbent upon the town to be the best landlord possible to ensure the return on the Town’s investment to lease this beach. I therefore suggest that the Town permanently solve the parking issues for this restaurant by paving-over ALL of Old Mill Beach yielding enough parking so that even more restaurants can be added to this budding commercial zone. In addition, by paving-over the beach, the town will reduce costs by no longer having to comb the sand or paying a parking lot attendant. Reduction of at least two more Town employees towards our goal.
I like the sarcasm…but thank goodness the State of CT would never let this happen.
I have a nice backyard with some open space. Perhaps I can set up a Tiki Bar and make some extra money on the weekends with my own neighborhood happy hour. Do you think my neighbors would mind? Is my proposal any different than what the restaurant is dong?
Shot in the arm — for whom? Is Mr. Barr willing to share Positano’s supposed increase in revenue that will come from the outdoor dining? Aside from lacking principle — See “no way” above. Mr. Barr’s implicit assertion that outdoor dining will help recover 30%+ revenue is wholly lacking in logic . . if a few outside tables could do that for a business, the sidewalks in Westport would be chok-a-block with no place to walk! Moreover, Mr. Barr and the Positano proprietors would do well to remember that the nature of a business is that the business owner — not the public — takes the risks and enjoys the benefits of the decisions the business owner makes. It seems in this case that the Westport public has voted with its feet. Perhaps Postano should improve its menu, its quality, its pricing or some other element of its business instead of seeking to impose its failing proposition on its neighbors and all others who wish to enjoy the beach.
Perhaps the owners of Positano’s will lament their decision to engage Mel Barr given the cost – Firstly, having to pay Mel’s fees and secondly the loss of walk-in business from newly estranged neighbors.
You can’t blame a guy for trying… illegal to begin with, a blatant disregard for regulations, and then there is parking. We have sufficient issues with parking around Old Mill without adding more restaurant patrons. Perhaps we – the town – could deck the Old Mill parking lot. Even that would not give the restaurant the right to violate town regulations.
This town thrives on people who break the rules. P+Z should be patted on the back for standing up for the first time and saying no. Let’s hope the trend continues and they take back the illegal patio as well. What is the point of rules if they are never enforced?
I must have missed something, why (in 12 years) has the Town of Westport not insisted on the full restoration of the beach & town property from this illegally built patio?
So Mary Ann, it goes like this:
1. P&Z sees and documents illegal building actions.
2. P&Z tries to educate the offending developer that if they don’t fix the offense, a Cease & Desist Order will be filed with the State of CT.
3. P&Z officially warns the offender that if corrective action isn’t taken by a certain date that a Cease & Desist order will be written.
4. P&Z cites the violation (sometimes many months later) in an official Cease & Desist Order. This citation order is copied to the Town Atty.
5. The Town Atty decides whether to act on the Cease & Desist Order or to “pocket-veto” by taking no action.
In this case, the Town Atty decided to be lazy and, perhaps, enjoyed some really great dining deals, by not acting.
There’s a really nasty stink coming from this one. The tide is out! Time for some investigative journalism. Perhaps by Dan Woog?
Ira W. Bloom
Westport, Connecticut
Senior Partner
phone (203) 227-9545
fax (203) 227-2443
email Email Me
Ira W. Bloom is a senior partner in the firm. He has practiced in the land use and municipal areas for many years. Mr. Bloom has been Town Attorney for Westport since 1998
How many times can you stuff the ballot box? (I am up to five)
You cannot vote more than once on the same computer. Obviously, there’s no way I can control anyone from voting more than once using different computers. You’re the one who has to look himself in the mirror, Registered Voter.
How many times can Dan Woog ask the wrong polling question? The wrong polling question asked by Dan Woog was ; Should Positano be allowed to use ITS patio for outdoor dining?:” The accurate question is; SHOULD POSITANO BE ALLOWED TO LEASE TOWN BEACH PROPERTY FOR THE PURPOSE OF OUTDOOR DINING [ P&Z states that outdoor dining is a prohibited use in a residential zone]. (Positano’s patio was illegally built by the current Positano owner, with full knowledge that it was town property.) So, this was prohibited and owned by someone else..in this case..owned by the Town of Westport. So NOW , being fully informed , you can decide.
It’s true the economy needs a shot in the arm, but the best way to do that is make it easier for people to start and grow businesses — not provide special favors such as the variance being sought by the Positano restaurant.
Government officials don’t have a crystal ball to predict which businesses will emerge as the winners of the future, so the business climate should be improved for everyone. For example,permanent, across-the-board tax cuts. If they’re not permanent, they won’t do any good for the economy, because people don’t increase their spending and hiring if they know that a tax cut is temporary and will soon go away. Cutting taxes for particular tax brackets or particular industries or other segments of our economy amounts to predicting which will yield the biggest contributions to growth and jobs in the future — and nobody can predict that.
Granting the variance to Positano, enabling it to profit from illegal activity, will just encourage others to seek special privileges, and the bottom line will be that gains will go to those who are best at lobbying, not those who are best at serving customers.on a level playing field.
No way
I think that Positano should change their menu and their pricing. I’ve taken out of town guests there several times of late, to proudly show off Westport’s water-front fine dining. The view does not disappoint, but the food, alas was awful. I would not return, not even for an el fresco experience. And, it is too bad there are not other venues on the water. It would be great to have a clam house down there…
Of course, Positano should be allowed to have a few outdoor tables..dont we all enjoy outdoor dining? And of course, Positano should upgrade the quality of their food and service just like any good restaurant that wants to remain in business and remain in good standing within its community.
I’m not sure how you can say “of course” when the patio is illegal to begin with. This argument shouldn’t even be happening.
Hello Beachwalker. Would you like a commercial outdoor patio serving drinks every night of the week until late right outside of your bedroom window? Please remember that this is a RESIDENTIAL neighborhood and Positano’s operates here in a very restricted caacity – 100% indoors – for good reason. There are plenty of COMMERCIALLY ZONED rents available for outdoor dining. Please see “Mom with kids” comments above. Have a heart and please re-think your position. The number of kids who board school busses at Elvira’s every morning can give you a feeling for how many youngsters we have in this family neighborhod. If you don’t beleive me, ask Stacy of Elvira’s – she knows each and every kid by name. Elvira’s has a history of looking out for the neighorhod kids on this issues like this. Have a heart Beachwalker!
“Please remember that this is a RESIDENTIAL neighborhood and Positano’s operates here in a very restricted caacity – 100% indoors – for good reason.”
Then why is Elvira’s allowed to have picnic tables where people dine “outdoors” in a RESIDENTIAL neighborhood?
To clarify, Elvira’s has outdoor EATING – which is allowed, and closes usually around dusk. Positano’s has requested the prohibited outdoor DRINKING & DINING and is open until late. Listening to the happy sounds of neighborhood kids eating pizza is very different from that of imbibing adults being served by a staff happy to have a bill inflated with lots of drinking.
Have a heart. Elvira’s outdoor eating is fully allowed – NO CONTEST.
“Listening to the happy sounds of neighborhood kids eating pizza is very different from that of imbibing adults being served by a staff happy to have a bill inflated with lots of drinking.”
I think children would be MORE annoying to listen too.
And what is the difference between “EATING” and “DINING”??
You are sitting at a table consuming food and beverages in bothe cases.
Hey Dan! Where is there lease line? Can they add tables/doors out the back??
OR!!
Why not treat ( the side garden like a Pop up cafe)? What exactly are the rules–it would seem to me that that is only fair– and, what a wonderful place to eat–and obviously, they cannot pop out into the already congested road, so maybe a fair trade would be the side ((yard??))…
**Another idea is just to change ((all)) the windows to doors/ like French doors that open out to the sea– or google Nanawall!! ((unfortunately, they are $$$))..but, with Nanawall, the entire wall folds back making a huge-beautiful- opening… that way, the owners would definitely open up their restaurant to the sea, while maintaining the same amount of seating, so the parking wouldn’t change… and, I think it would be much more appealing…Almost every table would then have a sea view and the breeze…
Seems like they could find a way here– I am willing to help–please fwd my info– if they need… in fact– glad to help!!
I am a beach resident, too, and I am 100% for it!! I LOVE Positanos…..
ps– i do ‘get it’ about the noise, but the trade off would be an unbelievable place to dine–
betsy~
“trade off” would be 2 hours of your dining pleasure vs. 30-40 hours of noise and parking? Let’s trade 🙂
You know what?? You are right. I re-read all the comments– like Mom with kids and– well, cool as it would be, it is a neighborhood… and, the parking (is already) an issue… you guys are right.
I still like the french door idea– that restaurant just wants to be more open to the sea–
Actually, lots of suggestions have been tossed around; I hope it helps them come up with a way to stay in business–
you got class 😉
Ditto [to Betsy’s reversal]: honest and classy.
Betsy’s example is a lesson to us all. Perhaps “Wrecker” can take notice?
According to Dan’s article:
” Outdoor dining is prohibited in residential areas.”
Then why is Elvira’s allowed to have picnic tables “outside” their deli where people sit down and eat their recently purchased meals?
Dear Wrecker, Elvira’s has outdoor EATING – which is allowed. Elvira’s closes usually around dusk. Positano’s on the other hand has requested the prohibited outdoor DRINKING & DINING and is open until late. Listening to the happy sounds of neighborhood kids eating pizza at Elvira’s is very different from the prospect of imbibing adults being served by a staff happy to have a bill inflated with lots of drinking.
Have a heart. Elvira’s outdoor eating is fully allowed – NO CONTEST.
“Listening to the happy sounds of neighborhood kids eating pizza is very different from that of imbibing adults being served by a staff happy to have a bill inflated with lots of drinking.” LOL
I think children would be MORE annoying to listen too.
And what is the difference between “EATING” and “DINING”??
You are sitting at a table consuming food and beverages in bothe cases.