Totally Uncool

As we worry about the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, how many of us think about our own waste here in Westport?

From 1 spot on Main Street today — with the temperature near 90 — I saw 4 stores with their doors wide open.

Air conditioning was on full blast — luring customers with the promise of a refreshing shopping experience, while wreaking havoc on the environment.

True, it’s not 2 million gallons a day.  But it’s energy just the same.

Banana Republic



Blue Mercury

99 responses to “Totally Uncool

  1. Gary Singer

    Good work, Dan. Hope these businesses, and all the others, get the message.

  2. Are they paying for the air conditioning? It’s their call.

  3. Oh boy here we go again with Jeffxs and his liberatarian views. If these stores use more electricity because they leave their doors open with the a/c blasting, they are driving up energy costs that we all share in eventually. In addition, the furnaces that fuel these energy demands pollute our air that we breath causing an increase of asthma in kids by 50%. If the store owners want to purchase their own generators, go for it. If not, go Green baby.

  4. Igor: If the stores use more electricity, they pay for the electricity, not you. You pay only for the electricity you use. It is not the use of electricity that creates the pollution that seems to concern you, it is the manner in which the electricity is generated. The store owners have no control over the way electricity is generated. Your quarrel is with those who control the manner in which electricity is generated.

  5. I think what “Igor” was attempting to point out is that if the generating plants are producing more and more electricity to higher demands, the means of such production will depreciate in value and require repair or replacement. This drives up costs to all users.

  6. CL&P Employee

    The Connecticut electric grid relies on peak generating plants that operate only during such periods of high demand. Many of these plants are old and less efficient in their emissions. Therefore, greater demand by the consumer does have a direct effect on the environment.

  7. CL&P: And why are those older less efficient plants in operation still? The store owners have no control over the age or efficiency of the plants. The store owners see only the price of electricity and make their decisions accordingly.

    • CL&P Employee

      A state regulatory agency governs the new construction of more efficient “peak” generating plants. For cost and political reasons (often times location), they have not been updated. It is estimated if commerical buildings were “retro-fitted” i.e. made more efficient, 40% of our energy could be reduced. This means lower costs to the store owner. It also means that they need to close their doors when the air conditioning units are blasting in near 90 degree weather.

    • Jonathan Amos

      Mr. Jeffxs: Under your theory, why does not the electric companyhave the same freedom of choice to build new plants whenever it wants as does the consumer to leave the doors open if they can pay for it?

  8. Bringing it back to where the rubber hits the road, is it not possible that the retail help (employees) do not control the air conditioning and open the doors rather than wear a sweater?

  9. Rob: It is their choice. You may make a different choice, but leaving the doors open is their preference. All of my neighbors heat their pools using gas. I choose to not do so, but I don’t criticize them for their choice. Why would anyone oppose the ability to chose?

  10. Addison Fletcher

    While I respect Jeffxs’ philosophy of freedom of choice and “if they are paying for it, their call” approach to life in America, it just has not worked. The American citizen has become the pawn of corporate America who, in turn, has fed into the overindulgence. overextension of debt and many times, the pure nonsensical decisions of its consumer. So while it is the freedom of choice for the average American household to go into $9,000 of credit card debt or purchase a house at suprime rates beyond their affordability, when they file bankruptcy, their debt is shared by all. When the citizen eats nothing but junk food and becomes obese, it runs up health costs as well as often governmental intervention in the form of medicaid or assistance. When they choose a Cadillac Escalade instead of a hybrid, they consume more fuel and thus continue the cycle of dependency and in recent cases, war over our addiction to oil. Thus, freedom of choice by the indivdiual does have consequences and it is my feeling, we should start making those decision in the best interest of the entire population.

    • My God man move to Cuba!

      • Addison Fletcher

        Actually, Havana is quite nice

        • I’m sure the people living under communist rule of a dictator feel the same way.
          And since you’re an elitist you would fit right in with Castro and Chavez, and to hell with the commoners.

          • Addison Fletcher

            Actually I am a downtrodden starving writer. But I have been to Havana to meet Fidel. Has a nasty curveball. Left-hander if you want to know. Knuckleball as well.

      • Oh Raho, how are those milita meetings going?

        • My retort to you Igor: ‘How are your Commie meetings going comrade Igor? Isn’t Igor a Russian name? Perhaps that is why you’re so comfortable with commie and socialist ways dictator Igor.
          How does it feel to be portrayed and stereotyped a certain way?

          • Fine with me. I ain’t that touchy. You got some anger brewing. But really how are those miltia meetings going?

  11. Addison; You have missed the point entirely. The person who drives the SUV does not choose to send our troups off to war; the government does. You should ask the question of our government; Why war? Additionally, we have had almost 40 7ears to recognize the adverse consequences of a “dependence” on foreign oil and we, as a nation, have chosen to do little or nothing to lessen that dependence. Did we do as did the French and build enough nuclear power plants sufficient to lessen the dependence? No. Did we drill for oil where we know it is? No. Did we substitute coal and natural gas for foreign oil? No. Stupidity has consequences, and the dependence on foreign oil is a direct consequence of our own stupidity. Now, you would force the SUV owner to bear the burden of that same stupidity. The externalities inherent in buying an SUV do not include an increased depenedence on foreign oil.

  12. CL&P and Jonathan; You have both pointed out the adverse consequences of government policies, not the adverse consequences of air conditioning with open doors. Afterall, using your theory it is proper to ask; Why allow air conditioning at all?

  13. Regardless of the clear philosphical differences on this topic, I bet that these stores will have their doors closed this summer when the AC is running…..and we have Dan to thank for creating awareness.

    Thanks Dan.

  14. Addison Fletcher

    Jeffxs: I concur completely with your analysis and failure of our government to pursue alternative means of energy as far back as Nixon. But I still think it is a consumer driven economy (corporate America) as well as those who represent those interests in government. You seem to think that the government has their own agenda and the hell with its citizens. While I sometimes I agree with that supposition, we should have the intelligence and aforesight as an electorate to choose our leaders according to the needs of the greater good. In doing so, we can choose the smaller car, the salad bar and to close the doors. We have not and thus corporate America has fed our over-indulgence and government has rarely, with few exceptions, interceded and mandated reform. I think we agree on much but it my feeling is that the individual must change before corporate or government America will do anything. And thus, we are back to closing the doors when the a/c is blasting.

  15. JW: How much do you want to bet? They will close their doors as soon as we drive hybrids, MacDonalds goes out of business and we set our thermostats at 75 degrees . . . in other words, until hell freezes over.

  16. CL&P Employee

    I think you are missing the point Mr. Jeffxs:
    The government does dictate the construction of new facilities for high demand peak utilization. However, if the consumer did not overuse, we would not have any need for such facilities. I think you are confusing on who is the dog and what is the tail.

  17. Dan can be our bookie!! How about a gentelman’s bet that next weekend that at leat 2 of 3 of these doors will be closed during the day?

    My feeling is that the store employees did not even think about the rationale for the door being open and when it is brought to their attention, the doors will close. You don’t need to want to save the world to know that the doors being open with the AC on makes no sense.

  18. JW: You are on! Gentleman to gentleman (I am assuming you are a male). If Dan is willing or wishes to delegate such responsbility, I would like to see whether the same stores close those doors. 1,700 hits a day on this blog. That leaves a lot of residents still in the dark (excuse the analogical pun).

  19. The Dude Abides

    Jeffxs: I am really digging these vibes, man. Eat whatever you want in school and golf, sailing and tennis is for whimps, man. Who needs Longshore? And now, just sitting back stoking the roach with the a/c blasting. Keeps the smoke off the merchandise. Man, you are the Messiah. Keep preaching, man.
    The Dude Abides

  20. Addison: No corporation can force you to “overconsume.” It’s your choice. Blaming America’s obvious shortcomings on others is a cop out. Who elected the idiots who prevented an increase in domestic energy supplies? Who rang up the charges on YOUR credit card?

    CL&P: The term “overuse” is so nebulous in this case as to be meaningless. Is heating a pool an overuse of energy? How about air conditioning a house? Energy is more expensive than it need be because we have made stupid choices, and we continue to make stupid choices, while the rest of the world gets it more nearly right. We make stupid choices that we know are stupid and then we whine about how competition from abroad is “unfair.’ What nonsense.

  21. Dude: You should buy a higher quality of weed.

  22. John Brandeis

    So, if I understand it correctly, you are advocating total freedom of choice no matter how stupid we are in making it?

  23. If you are whimping out, Wooger, what are the stores?

  24. The Dude Abides

    Jeffxs: Only “The Chronic” weed for the Dude. This is Westport, after all. Peace brother Jeffrey.
    The Dude Abides

  25. Oh, duh. I see the names now. Will be the inspection team next Saturday.

  26. Richard Lawrence Stein

    Wow… It never seems to amaze me at just how moronic people can be on all sides…. Freedom of choice, individual rights, and so many other aspects of an arguement that’s is why keep doors open when you have the AC on!!! If that is what a store needs to entice a shopper I don’t want to shop there…. I don’t want there AC bill passed on to me via the price of whatever they are selling… Where is the simple fact of common sense… I don’t leave my oven on to heat my home or the frig to cool it. That is just plane stupid…. I don’t think we need stores trying to cool down main street.

  27. Max Stampa-Brown

    Just replace the Y with a Walmart. Westport doesn’t have one, and if we leave those doors open we could turn Main Street into a winter wonderland!

  28. The moronic sanctimonious meddlers are out in force ! The people who can’t abide by freedom of choice are holding forth. And yes, if people want to act “stupidly” that is their option. I think that drinking coffee with caffeine is stupid, but I am not about to force people to stop drinking coffee with caffeine. Heating a pool strikes me as being more than a bit foolish, but once again, if you want to heat your pool have at. Why are so many in Westport, AKA the People’s Republic of Joseloff, afraid of the freedom enjoyed by others?

  29. The Dude Abides

    You tell ’em Jeffxs. Burn one, man. You are far too uptight. You and Raho need to chill together in some a/c’d miltia meeting somewhere. I love that AKA label though. Power to the people baby. Let’s storm the cannons on the beach. The Dude Abides.

    • Dude,

      Since you and Igor both brought me up first and tried to disparage me by association to certain groups that I don’t belong to, let me just say, “you’re and old hippie that’s high most of the time and Igor is just an idiot’, so I won’t respond to either of you two knuckleheads any further.

      And by the way, just because Jeff Bridges was cool as the ‘Dude’ that doesn’t mean you are, I know the Dude, trust me you’re no Dude.

      Maybe you and Igor should adopt the monikers from the guys in the movie ‘Dumb and Dumber’, that would be more apropos.

      • Dumber (1)

        Whatever, man. You like that word moniker?
        Too lazy to look it up. D&D a good movie.
        Chill man. You need to burn one. Your name is all over that miltia stuff man. Check the webber and all you add here is Fox News II.
        The Dude Abides

  30. Arthur Champlin

    Speaking of the beach, they aren’t going to let us get drunk there any more. Damn MSM tea-toatlers!

  31. Richard Lawrence Stein

    Jeffxs you are right it s a choice one can make…. But it doesn’t mean it’s not stupid… That is not an opinion…. That is fact keeping doors open on hot days to let out the AC is dumb and wasteful

  32. Richard: It is not a “fact.” It is an opinion; your opinion. And not surprisingly you are in love with your own opinion. If it costs $100 a day to use the air conditioning with the doors open, but in some manner the open doors result in $101 in additional business, then keeping the doors open is not dumb or wasteful, ceteris paribus.

    I want to see them enforce the no drinking mandate during the July 4 fireworks. That would be quite a show.

    • Richard Lawrence Stein

      Actually Jeffy an opinion is based and or derived from info or facts and then interpreted… So based on the info here the facts are…. Hot day door open AC blasting = Moronic stupid wasteful… Regardless of who is paying the bill

  33. Sensible One

    My gosh!! I have been reading this blog for only a few months and have had some interesting “conversations” with a number of individuals – sometimes we agreed and often not, but we didn’t reduce ourselves to name calling and bullying. Is it really necessary to do this??
    Why can’t we have a lively conversation without the derogatory comments – I would expect that a town like Westport with so many educated individuals could rise above the name calling……
    Just saying………

  34. Innocent Bystander

    Way of the world, Sensbile One. I don’t think education has anything to do with it. Lot of anger going around. But I agree with you, if you can’t have an intelligent intellectual dialogue and instead only become a snippet, perhaps it is time to find another avenue to vent your views.

    • So it’s okay for others to express their views as long as you agree with them, and you don’t say anything after those same people make negative comments first and name calling to those that they oppose.
      But as soon as those people cut to the chase and call a spade a spade, then you have a problem and claim people are so angry.
      Hey lady, if you really believed what you said, you would have called those out earlier whether you agreed or disagreed with them…otherwise it makes you look disingenuous.

      • Addison Fletcher

        Mr. Raho: I don’t know anything about this “miltia” stuff, but my somewhat reasonable conversation with Jeffxs was interrupted by your comments that included “move to Cuba,” “elitist,” “commie and socialist ways,” “old hippie,” “idiot,” “Dumb & Dumber,” and finally “disingenuous.” I don’t see any input on the true issue at hand: wasteful use of energy.
        I applaud Sensible One for calling you out on your choice of focus which seems to be only to call people names.

        • Mr. Fletcher,

          You pretend not to know anything about ‘this militia stuff’ when you do know that others above have tried to associate me with it unfairly and first.

          You complain that I told you to move to Cuba and I did when you said, ” freedom of choice by the individual does have consequences and it is my feeling, we should start making those decision in the best interest of the entire population”. My retort to you wasn’t mean, it was in direct response to your belief that individual freedom should take a back seat to the collective.

          Next you praise Innocent Bystander for ‘calling me out’ when in fact that is all I did when those above tried to disparage me. By all rights Innocent Bystander and you should be praising me for doing the same thing. I’m just more affective and that offends you…don’t hate the player hate the game.

          So for the record (again) I didn’t begin calling anyone names, I only responded afterward with a little more bite.

          And since you think Fidel Castro is so cool and throws one ‘nasty curve-ball’ why don’t you read about how people he and his regime have killed including children. Link here:

          • Addison Fletcher

            Any attempt to disagree with you is met with insults and name calling. If you don’t think “move to Cuba, man” is mean, than we are at a different level. My conversation with Jeffxs was based on my belief that our citizens should, sometimes, sacrifice for the good of the country I believe you will find our troops doing that as we speak and as I did in Vietnam. Jeffxs disagrees with that premise in that, as I understand it, each individual should have the right to choose, no matter what. While we disagree, I respect his opinion as well as his stubborness, against great disssent, to stick by his beliefs. I don’t see any such focus from you. As you did in the”Tea Party Movement” discussion and the debate on Staples, you bob and weave, like a boxer, hitting with personal jabs and insults but without any steady stream of ideology. I am sorry if this offends you but this is my perception.
            P.S. I never said Cuba was “cool.” I said I had been there and met with Castro for an interview. Another example of asssumptions leading to insults.

  35. Hush McCormick


  36. We should not conflate education and intelligence.

  37. Richard Lawrence Stein

    For those of you who were gambling the cosmetic, prefume, and sadly and surprisingly lululemon had there doors open as did one other which I can’t recall

  38. Richard: You are a bit confused. Your opinion is only a fact to the extent that factually it is your opinion. Whether or not leaving the doors open and the air conditioning on is foolish is an opinion and only an opinion.

    • That is right Jeffxs. If leaving the doors open invites 25 percent more traffic and profits go up, well then it was money well spent (especially at the prices those stores charge).

      That’s a fact and an inconvenient truth that our open minded and tolerant friends fail to comprehend because they are so superior and know what is best for all without taking into consideration all factors and reason.

  39. John: Don’t confuse them. The MSM’s are happy is their tiny little world bounded by their own opinions. None other need enter; very illiberal.

    • Richard Lawrence Stein

      John and Jeff… Whatever is my response… You can think what you like… It is a sad position you take but that is your place…. Whatever

  40. I did head down to Main Street with my family last night and observed at 5:30pm that one store still had their doors wide open. Note, at 5:30 they were closed for thirty minutes. Anyhow, much to my chagrin, one of the workers was brooming schmootz from inside their store onto the sidewalk. You cannot make this stuff up. Brooming your crap on to the sidewalk might be more of an egregious act than keeping your doors opens when the AC is blasting. This not only fits into the stupid category, but also rude.

  41. Addison: I never said no matter what.

  42. Addison Fletcher

    I must be wearing orthopedic shoes because I stand corrected!

    • And I accept your apology, it takes a big man to admit when he’s wrong. 😉

  43. Addison Fletcher

    I am often wrong. I just don’t like to admit it. And it takes a bigger man to point that out! Beautiful day. No a/c needed. Open the doors! Great to live in Westport. Big hug now! Life is good.

    • You are correct sir, it is a beautiful day and life is good!
      I’ve already been to the beach this morning and now have my windows open enjoying the fresh air, and the sounds of leaf blowers (but lets not debate those today).

  44. Addison Fletcher

    Well I have construction on my block. Third house in three years. I have invested heavily in Mack’s ear plugs. Wonderful product, made in the USA (and we won’t debate that either).

  45. Addison Fletcher

    JW: On my afternoon run today, I ran west from the Post Office to Main Street up to Talbots on Main. Fourteen (14) stores had their doors wide open with a/c blaring in 76 degree heat. From Restoration Hardware to Brooks Brothers, energy conservation at its finest. Bet down.

  46. It’s their money and their air conditioning. Give it a rest.

  47. Addison Fletcher

    No way, extra small. It is OUR energy and their waste much like it is their oil and OUR water. And for someone who advocates personal choice, you are fairly hypocritical in comments on what I do during my run.

  48. Sorry Addison it is no more our energy than it is our beer or our ice cream or our latte. You may do whatever you want during your run, and I am free to point out that what you do is foolish. I am not attempting to stop you from running or offering up banal comments.

  49. Addison Fletcher

    Thank you for sincerity and once again, insult. I will continue to argue the fact that open doors is wasteful and as “CL&P” employee mentions above, costing us in rate hikes and pollution. Letters have already been sent to the CEO’s of these national outlets and managers of the local establishments. Further, if we can ban plastic bags, we sure can do something about wasteful energy.

  50. Yes, we can ban paper cups. We can ban newspapers. We can ban the watering of lawns. We can ban the sale of beer in cans. We can close down Mickey D’s. How about jailing anyone who smokes? This is all possible in the People’s Republic of Joseloff. If you totalitarians just mount an effort we can rid the town of all who do not think as you think or act as you want them to act. What a paradise you will have then!!!

    • And I guess act like you want? Arrogant, defensive, nasty and negative on everything.
      No thanks.

  51. The Dude Abides

    Man, xs, you are one unhappy gringo. Why hang tight here if it bugs you so much? Your rage is contagious, man. Chill, take a drag, lob on the beach, get horizontal. Life is too short.

  52. Dude:Thanks for sharing that; how special.

  53. Curious; Or as you; hostile. Negative on everything? Reread the thread; I favor choice.

    • YOUR choice as seen here and other blog entries. Negative on everybody’s choice. Ahh . . . e.g MSM. Reality check.

  54. Curious: You are a bit confused. I favor everyone’s choice as long as it does not impinge on the ability of others to make choices. You on the other hand, favor only your choices and seek to impose those choices on others.

    • Princeton '82

      You are advocating an anarchism at a time when capitalism is very suspect. Our republic was formed for the betterment of the majority with certain “fundamental” rights reserved to the individual. By definition, one’s choice is limited under such system. Regarding the issue at hand, if the waste of some impedes the rights and privledges of others, it is subject to governmental intervention and prevention. Your continued song is a wild howl in direct contradiction to the American spirit of united we stand, divided we fall.

  55. Princeton: I am advocating that government is best that governs least. That is the Ametrican tradition. Making some worse off in order to make others better off does not a priori improve the general welfare; it only makes some better off.
    As to “waste” who is to determine what is “waste”? You? How covenient…for you. And, you confuse capitalism with freedom. they are not one and the same.

  56. Princeton '82

    I concur with your supposition of the best government governs less rather than more. However, when certain events mandate, it is my belief that the government must step in to protect our citizens. Certainly this was the case with the recent credit default debacle on subprime mortgages as well as the recent disaster in the Gulf of Mexico. I don’t confuse capitalism with either our constitution republic or individual freedom. However, they have become very much interrelated in the last century and unfortunately, many times the reason why government is forced into governing more rather than less. While I agree that “waste” is subjective, I think that any first year graduate student in environmental science would agree that leaving your doors open with the air conditioning blasting is a dysfunctional use of energy and thus, I bow to their knowledge.

  57. Princeton: They might be wrong; it is matter of economics. If it cost $100 per day extra to keep the doors open, and the air conditioning on, but as a result revenues increase more than enough to cover the cost, ceteris paribus, then keeping the doors open is not a waste. As to environmental “science” ,the phrase is an oxymoron. As someone who has built mathematical models of complex processes for over 40 years, I know BS when I see it. As to the “financial meltdown”, that was a direct result of government intervention in the market for credit. If there were no CRA or Fannie or Freddie, there would have been no meltdown; without sub-prime loans there would have been no sub-prime crisis. If BP were not drilling in 5000 feet of water the “debacle” would not be as threatening. Why were they forced to drill in 5000 feet of water? We have watched for over 35 years while government intervention into the market for energy has produced sub-optimal results. It is time for the government to butt out.

  58. Princeton '82

    I disagree. As noted on this blog, the increased use of air conditioning in high peak times necessitates the use of old generators which pollute and I am not sure open doors equate to more revenue. I am not a shopper but it sounds far fetched. The housing bubble was, indeed, promulgated by the desire of government to have everyone own a home. However the real collapse resulted from the lack of government regulation when the investment bankers created all sorts of schemes to market the subprime mortgages into credit default swamps with AIG really being the culprit by insuring such risky creations. Further, in 2001, there were some odd 250 FBI agents awaiting assignment to looking into the suprime fiasco and also, Bernie Madoff. Then 911 happened and they were diverted in focus. Having been a oil and gas attorney for decades, I tend to agree with you on the offshore drilling issue. However, what you fail to mention is that, while it is riskier to drill in deep water, there are far bigger wells. I should add that Congress has not granted a permit to build a new refinerery since 1976. That being said, I think BP coupled with a troubled govenmental agency, dropped the ball here. BP has a long history of safety issues and no one took them to bat. The leak is unqiue in nature and they have brought in the best of the best but the cleanup technology is medevil. We should being calling in the Saudi’s right now. I also agree with you on the politicalization of energy over the past half century and advocate an independent agency to oversee the use of all forms of energies, including fossil fuels, to lessen our dependence on the Middle East. Naomi Klein has a theory about big business benefiting from governmental crisis and thus they are bedfellows. I would like to hear your thoughts on that?

  59. Princeton; George Stigler, Nobel in economics, long ago advanced the theory that regulatory agencies become captives of the industries they are supposed to regulate. I agree with Stigler. Of course, Stigler argued as well that the SEC did more harm than good. I agree with him on that issue as well. I disagree with your characterization of the dynamics of the credit market chaos. The securities industry is among the most regulated of all industries. It is this regulation that promotes the appearance of stability and safety where none exists. The SEC does not prevent capital market excesses, it makes them possible by lowering the cost of capital and increasing access to capital. The FDIC and the Fed have a similar impact on the capital markets. Let’s just say the that government intervention was a necessary but not sufficient condition for the collapse. Did Wall Street help? You bet, But the indiot savants on the Street were responding to the incentives presented by a capital market that was manipulated by the government.

  60. Princeton: There are no externalities mentioned thus far that are inherent in the use of air conditioning, thus as long as customers pay for it, they can consume as much as they please.

  61. Princeton '82

    I think our basic difference is whether the dog is wagging its own tail or vice versa. From a veteran of the first banking crisis, I can tell you the deregulation of the savings and loans by Reagan in 1982 directly related to the failure of over 350 banks within a decade. In that case, the greed and stupidity of bankers led to governmental intervention to prevent many depositors from being destoyed. You argue, in theory, that the government (in that case the FDIC) was the instigator by failure to regulate. I disagree on principal. In such tune, I further feel that it may have been the SEC’s failure to catch Madoff but certainly its regulation did not create the monster. On other points, it was really the citizens who vehemently opposed shallow water drilling. Lord, they wouldn’t allow windmills five miles off Nantucket for fear of blocking their views. So I am not sure I blame the government for deep water drilling. 35,000 rigs have been in operation over the decades and none have leaked as BP. I am basically a minimalist so I don’t like waste. While I respect your notion that “because I can afford it”, it doesn’t resonate with my personal beliefs.

  62. Princeton: The savings and loan crisis was a direct result of government regulation. Regulation Q was put in place for the express purpose of protecting the S&L industry from competition from commercial banks. Without Reg Q there would have been a much much small S&L industry. The legislation phasing out regulation Q was passed in 1980 before Reagan became President. The removal of Reg Q forced the S&L’s to compete, and they could not do so. So once again we disagree; without govt. intervention into the credit market there would have been no S&L “crisis.”

  63. Princeton '82

    Welp. I stand corrected with the exception that the deregulation of 1982 did allow ownership of the S&L’s to flow to any developer who wanted their own personal ATM machine. As a result, the S&L industry went knee deep into a real estate bubble in the southwest and eventually, the entire country, that went bust. Your point is well taken though. May have to seriously look into Naomi Klein’s writing. Appreciate the interaction, however. So under your philosphy, government should only react or only stick to a limited agenda??????????

  64. Princeton: A limited agenda would be nice. Do you think that having Barney Frank running the banking system is a good thing?

  65. Princeton '82

    As opposed to Spencer Bachus????

  66. As opposed to the invisible hand.

  67. Carl A. Swanson

    Then I prefer the invisible hand. Barney is a good guy. I met him in ‘2001 in Boston. But over the top and far too focused on the being the “left” rather than legislating practicality.

  68. Carl: Barney told two Presidents, Clinton and Bush, that Fannie and Freddie were in good shape and required no additional oversight. Dodd agreed. Dodd is on the way out the door. Barney should follow right behind.

  69. Princeton '82

    I am not sure I agree with Carl for Frank is way out of his league in my book. Did he not take over Tip O’Neil’s seat? He is safe in November then but I think the Republicans will take over the House and a new chairman. Conversely, I have always liked Chris Dodd but caught with his hand in the cookie jar with Countrywide. Appears to be Blumenthal who may be as wacko as Barney.