A full house at Town Hall watched Monday, as ROAN Ventures — the developer of the Hamlet at Saugatuck retail/residential/hotel/marina/and more project — showed their latest architectural renderings and traffic studies to the Planning & Zoning Commission.
The 90-minute presentation included a number of PowerPoint slides.
The audience — in person, and watching at home — got plenty of information. Much of it went by fairly quickly.
ROAN has shared their deck with “06880.” If you missed a few of the details — or missed the meeting entirely — here some highights.
Parking garage.
Valet parking slide.
Surface parking count.
Parking garage (top) and assorted signage.
Building height (waterfront view), compared to National Hall.
Another slide depicting building heights.
The former Pine Knoll Inn (at the site of today’s Playhouse Square) inspired the design of this building.
Earlier drawing (left) and revised (right) show simplified, more connected buildings, and the addition of a waterfront plaza.
Earlier rendering (left) and revised (right) show broader access to the Saugatuck River.
Before (left) and revised (right) renderings show height changes.
Aerial renderings. Railroad Place is at bottom; Riverside Avenue and Saugatuck River are at right.
Proposed traffic improvements.
Proposed traffic signal upgrades.
(“06880” was the first media outlet to report on The Hamlet project. We’ve followed the story every since. Please click here, to support our ongoing coverage — and everything else we do. Thank you!)
Incomprehensibly ridiculous for a town of this size…despite all the palaver, it’s gonna’ feel much more closed in and far less welcoming than the junk that exists. Unstoppable for sure, but a real Westport tragedy.
It doesn’t look like Westport…not quaint, it’s overbuilt and dark . It looks like they’re squeezing in buildings in every morsel of space.
Bad proportions between building heights and street width. Narrow cold no sun alleys between huge buildings. The artist renditions always show the buildings from a distance…another deception 🤩
It’s a con job‼️🇺🇸
Hamlet 🤮
https://play.champds.com/westportct/event/299. Just scroll to roughly 1 hour and 7 minutes in and watch the P+Z explain the other option.
Robbie, I am going to assume you are referring to the 8-30g option. If I’m wrong, apologies. 8-30g is known as The Developers Law. It has nothing to do with addressing real affordable housing needs. The “threat” of 8-30g is what allows developers like Roan to get away with the most preposterous projects that ultimately do not deliver any or very little affordable housing. I am writing this as I look out on five $2 million houses on Gorham which were built under the threat of 8-30g. Not a single affordable unit was ever built. So 8-30g worked exactly as it was intended to by the developers who wrote the law.
Do you enjoy being a pawn for developers?
No need to attempt to insult me John, but if you feel you must, find me at the meetings. The p+z must also be a pawn then. I’ve watched and seen what this state law has done in town and in New Canaan. If anyone thinks the next attempt at revitalizing this area will he an application that’s without the state law backing it, allowing p+z some control or public input …
you’re sadly mistaken.
No insult was intended. If I could, I would retract that last sentence.
Ty
This area has been undeveloped for 50 years… nobody’s bringing any applications like this.
ESP beating us over the head with a hammer.
PZ made a horrific error of judgement. To the horror of many residents. And when I say horrific I do mean that. A delusional decision.
It needs to be re discussed, density changed, insane FAR( floor area parking ratio) changed.. and that text amendment thrown in the garbage.
1000-1 does not work when the state owns 90% of the parking.
1000-1 does not work full stop.
Imagine if every developer got a density of a FAR with 1000 sq feet-1 parking spot.
A 3000 sq foot restaurant will require 150 parking spaces in reality but by the regs they passed. 3 spots ?
For who ? 3 customers ?
X 12 restaurants..
now we are at 1800 parking spaces of need with regs allowing those constructions with 36 parking spots ???
In what universe..
add the existing businesses.
It’s more spots than the entire train station has if every commuter stopped commuting ? Not to mention the town using the train stations as though it’s a dumping ground in order to sell permits.
Again ? In what world ?
This administration cannot have its cake and eat it.
Do they think it’s quaint because they call it “the Hamlet” ?
“Westport’s Godzilla” is more appropriate
This is an amazing project. Like the YMCA, Gault and Bedford Square every opponent will claim it as their idea once complete. I’d like 06880 to ask the developers what the traffic study means to regular people as far as wait times etc.
YMCA on stand along building,
Bedford Sqaure replacing building for existing building. Not taller, wider, closer to the road. not apples to apples.
Problem Rob is that these studies are done with a preconceived notion. A necessary answer for the customer who pays for the study. In other words in my opinion.. lies.
I don’t think anybody in Westport tries to claim, Bedford or ymca, or Gault as examples of fabulousness.
Are they better than the hamlet ? Well yes, and that wouldn’t be difficult.
As for the traffic study ? Well it’s whatever the customer paying for it wanted to be.
All these studies are just that.
The biggest issue here is that PZ made a humongous mistake and needs to go back and withdraw the text ammendment change..
it needs to be more realistic with zero reliance on railroad parking.
And I do mean zero.
Existing businesses use it, when it’s available, absolutely. But it’s maxed out. And with that in mind PZ job is to protect those businesses already existing, not allow for new ones which will destroy existing.
Is the PZ goal here to bankrupt those businesses ?
Sure seems so ! Because that promises to be the result. That or clear cut them for future extended development. Musical chairs.. move them into their development and develop the vacant space they leave behind.
Will be very interesting to hear what Tooker has to say on that May talk in Norwalk about this very topic.
Pro business ? That is absolutely rubbish.
Her silence during the hamlet discussions spoke volumes 2 years ago.
She was asked more than 10 times to comment. Never did. Not once.
Yet now she’s commenting.
Hilarious.
She may be pro the hamlet business, but it promises to imho destroy all other businesses.
Let’s call a spade a spade here.
I’m really excited for the waterfront and the marina access. Currently not many places to dock. ROAN should really work with the town to integrate the boardwalk to Gault project.
Can ROAN look at adding a casino component? Maybe Westport’s next sister city could be Atlantic City?
For Morley’s consideration, maybe locate the casino on a Riverboat docked in front of the Omlette. Ya know, for the historic touch Westport cherishes
Oh, yeah, forgot to throw in that the threat of 830-g if turned down is hollow….830-g would be a blessing and far less intrusive, congestive and far more appropriate for the entire location. The P&Z should deny the “Hamlet” and dare these cyphers to go for 830-g.
All due respect Dan but an 8-30g will be all residential and according to p+z 400+ units. and give zero control to P+Z. imagine rush hour and the strain on the schools.
I agree with you Dan,
It would be far less intrusive as many would actually use the railroad to commute. Not something anyone in Hamlet will be doing.
The state can also decide to take back any of its lots at anytime and build all affordable units on them.
They could even give them to a willing developer for free to do so.
Nothing anyone can do to stop them.
They could also make their regulations far more stringent regarding parking at railroad, and potentially I imagine could tighten up the commuter language and might make it users of the railroad who park to commute on the train only.
When the state realizes a developer building what the state does not describe as a TOD, is relying on 80% of its parking requirement to be in commuter spots because they didn’t want to build in parking because their profit would be adversely effected, the state might not be very happy !
Who could blame them.
Developer basically wants to use most of the railroad spots for their benefit.
40 retail and restaurants
At ratio of 70% retail and 30% restaurant.
650-1000 staff.
Patrons anything from 1000- 2500
Removal of around 200 existing spaces around saugatuck where there buildings are going..
how can any of this be justified as making any sense… it simply doesn’t work.
Roan has zero intention of building an 8-30 anything.
And the allowance to put affordable housing offsite needs to be ended !
The state does not like it from what I have heard, and those units offsite, have the potential to not even count toward a moratorium..
so that would mean we are negative because of the condos….
How positively ironic.
Dan,
Team Roan has a fiduciary responsibility to their investors to both safeguard their investment as well as maximize their return.
The hamlet is infinitely less profitable then the 600 units of 830g that can get built as of right.
Heaven forbid p &z does not approve or this opposition group files suit, you can forget the site being remediated or the waterfront being accessible.
Builders can save 40M by just capping the site and building right on top.
No waterfront marina for 830g
That would be tragic.
it took me 20 minutes to drive from one side of the train station to the other… i didnt even see a train let folks off and those folks drive off the lot but maybe it happened… can anyone imagine what it will be like when the area is overwhelmed with this monstrosity? it just does not pass the sniff/common sense test.
and i dont believe that timing changes etc can remedy this. it took me somewhere in the 20-30 minute range to get from saugatuck ave/ferry lane intersection, around the station, to bridge st. not the first time. so when this is built i should plan for 60 minutes?
If I were a developer I’d answer: If getting out of Saugatuck and over the river at rush hour becomes impossible because of the throngs of your fellow Westporters enjoying our modest “Hamlet”, that’s why Westport has two train stations!
lets see the timing changes now and eliminate the current traffic to prove it? i wonder if the developers are giving their investors flying vehicles as an incentive?
Joshua, excellent idea, best one I have heard in weeks! put your light timers where your mouths are.
Problem is on most weekdays with the exception of Fridays greens farms is at full capacity. Back to pre covid levels. It is a far smaller parking area.
I am there every day. And I count the empty spaces. Never more than about 10, tho Friday is nothing like as busy.
Doesn’t help that the town of Westport and I believe Weston is using that station to park its school buses.
I imagine once construction begins Westport commuters will demand that those buses be moved to at the very least saugatuck train station. And I imagine post construction those buses will need to find a new home. At neither train.
That way it will free up a few extra parking spaces at greens farms for commuters. After all that’s what they are for according to the state contract.
First student bus drivers will just have to start earlier in the morning to avoid the saugatuck nightmare traffic, and be on time to pick up students.
Thanks Dan for reporting the facts much easier for us all to follow. Unfortunately we don’t have time to show up to all the meetings. I am personally excited to see this project move forward. It will be amazing to have the water front opened up to the public and clean up of the land.
I am all for it. let’s get it done.
Just look at the pics..It’s a mini Stamford or Norwalk. It doesn’t fit for Saugatuck..Love the pic of “Saugatuck Waterfront Today”..What a bunch of crap. Dan, please don’t tell me that you are drinking the kool aid..
Scale model💣
I have a few question for the roan developers and I guess this is as good a place as any to ask it.
1)
The slides shows 21,776 of retail and restaurant space, but I believe that is in the 4 waterfront buildings, shown on that slide.
How many square feet of restaurant/retail spaces in number and square feet are they proposing for the remaining buildings.
And they previously stated they planned on using 70% for retail and 30% for restaurants/bars/taverns/cafes- they added “per regulations”
2)
How many parking spaces are in this plan for the “total” restaurant and retail spaces over the entirety? And for the 650 – 1000 staff who will work through the entire build once completed?
3)
The PZ regulations allow for restaurants to expand their dining onto outdoor patio space up to 75% added occupancy outdoors, effectively almost doubling the number of patrons a restaurant can have.
While most restaurants in Westport are not able to add this 75% extra chairs outside, because they likely do not have the space required to do so, this does mean if that space is planned for in a new development, restaurants can effectively almost double in size.
How many square feet of restaurants/taverns/bars/cafes at stated 30% of retail spaces are planned?
One can assume that they plan on availing themselves of this 75% outdoor occupancy and ability to do so will be built in.
4)
railroad regulations while the goal is commuter parking, anyone with a car subject to availability, from any town may purchase a parking permit from the town of Westport.
You have stated your staff will park in other towns and take the train to work.
Do you really believe this will be the case.
What will prohibit them from parking in commuter spots at the train station of buying a parking permit?
Will that be in their employment contract ?
5)
Is there a maximum stay allowable in your hotel rooms, and what sizes are hotel rooms in the plan ? Are they one beds, studios, suites, adjoining doors, penthouses etc ?
Keys does not really tell us much.
Can a person stay for longer than 30 days ?
Reason I ask is that over 30 day stays allows guest to buy a parks n rec pass for all amenities at beach/longshore/ golf etc, as they qualify to be summer/part time residents.
6)
This question requires understanding total number of retail square feet, and number of units/ keys for want of a better word to those retail/restaurant spaces.
Hypothetical example:
40 retail/restaurant spaces.
Per regulations that could be 28 retail and 12 restaurant/tavern, bar, cafes. Notwithstanding the latter group can avail of 75% extra occupancy outside on patios.
With business hours including lunchtime and remembering there are already over 20 restaurants/taverns/bars/cafes in that area currently, as well as many existing retail shops and offices.
The railroad parking trend for train users, is up as businesses require employees to come to the office- more and more.
The train station at greens farms most week days is full to capacity.
It is smaller but the upward trend is there, and indisputable. Many of us used wait 5 years for parking permits.
If the train station at Saugatuck is full of train riding commuters upon completion of your project, where do you see patrons ( and staff)parking during the hours of 10 and 3 pm, visiting the 20 plus existing food establishments, the existing retail, offices, and now add to that 40 retail and of restaurants your development would bring.
7)
The CTDOT is presently doing studies on railroad parking they own throughout Connecticut.
It is their right to do whatever they like with those lots they own.
They could I suppose, take some lots and allow 8-30g to be built on those.
They could entirely change the way that contract is written and get rid of it, etc.. it is up for renewal in 2031.
As your plan appears to rely on the availability of railroad parking, if that parking goes away or gets halved, where will this leave your development ?
I suggest it leaves your retail and restaurant visitors with nowhere to park.
3 years is a long time. But what is your plan in the event of this by no means far fetched possibility?
8)
The timing of traffic lights does not change the flow of traffic in the masses we are talking about.
And lots of those timings are to facilitate entry to your parking garage and I suggest will mean longer waits for people leaving the area than those arriving for your development.
How exactly is this a traffic improvement ?
Those are just some of my questions.
I look forward to your response.
Make Roan build a scale model of the neighborhood they’re targeting, what they want to build and what it would look like with all of their buildings, parking garages and the supposed trees they say they will plant. They are refusing to do this because it will show how their plans will destroy Saugetuck.
I don’t think the marina is for the public. And why THREE hotels?
Has the increased amount of concrete verses drainage been addressed? Hurricanes have hit Westport and flooding has happened. It looks awful in any case. I can’t begin to imagine what the density would mean negatively to Westport. There has to be a better solution.
My first reaction was also – why ! three ! hotels? Is there a big need for hotel space in Westport? And what will happen when there is a problem on I-95? The traffic is already horrendous when I-95 is just slow not to mention when it is stop and go since trucks and cars exit and use surface streets causing gridlock throughout town. We have only 3 bridges to cross the river all with difficult intersections and the alternate routes which might provide some traffic flow get clogged as well.
The comparison to National Hall is bogus since its height is irrelevant to Saugatuck. The better comparisons are to existing structures and the overpasses for I-95 and the RR bridge.
One of the developers’ slides is missing— the Ocean House in Westerly, Rhode Island. It was shown as an example of New England charm. The Ocean House sits on a bluff on Watch Hill overlooking the Atlantic Ocean. It has 13 acres of expansive green grounds, and 650 ft of beach front. It was rebuilt as a reproduction the post-Civil War-era grand hotel it . It is truly magnificent and one of only 14 5 star resorts. Also a Relais & Chateaux.
How is it comparable to New England charm Saugatuck Village?
I don’t think the marina is for the public. And why THREE hotels?
As for those sketches of docks and marina, I did not see our Duck in place unless it is upriver from the ill conceived disastrous Hamlet stuff. In any case, the Hamlet project is entirely out of place visually and in every other way. It simply is too big for the area and for our town. The congestion (already twitch-inducing) will wreak havoc. Also, what will happen to the longstanding existing businesses in Saugatuck? Will they be driven out? I hope not; they should be protected. I have heard nothing about that subject and want to know those plans.
The Black Duck will remain — it’s there at the top of the sketches.
Oh crow!!!!! The Hamlet is going to be a huge mess!!!!
My 92 year-old Mom, a 50+ yr resident (E.Ferry area), is really looking forward to walking across the railroad bridge to the Hamlet. Every time this topic comes up she says she hopes she lives long enough to see it come to fruition. V excited!