In the wake of the Charleston church massacre, a vigil is set for this Monday (June 22), 7 p.m. on the lawn of Saugatuck Congregational Church.
The vigil is co-sponsored by TEAM Westport and the Interfaith Clergy Association of Westport and Weston.
People of all faiths — and everyone else — are invited to honor the 9 men and women gunned down in a South Carolina church.
Clockwise from top left: Susie Jackson; Sharonda Coleman-Singleton; DePayne Doctor; Ethel Lance; Daniel Simmons Sr.; Clementa Pinckney; Cynthia Hurd; Tywanza Sanders.
Good to hear this.
Perhaps, in the future, gun control and the education system will be re-addressed. Stop denying.
p.s. Please take down the confederate flag and put it in a museum where it belongs.
Stop with your gun control crap. If someone is going to kill they are going to kill. Why don’t you worry about these psycho paths and what’s wrong with these troubled kids. Don’t deny that nancy
Obviously, there are a number of reasons why gun homicides occur in the United States at levels that dwarf those in other Western democracies.
In the United States, for every one time a gun is used to killed in self-defense, there are 34 other gun deaths (killings by criminals, suicides, accidents). But fools pretend that “guns” have nothing to do with it – like someone with a knife could have easily as killed at the same rates.
It is a shame that people like Jeff don’t even pretend to take the issue seriously.
Of course, the same conservatives who get hysterical about even the concept of sensible gun regulation also are the people who would defund mental health programs because they don’t like the government.
The problem won’t improve with these people influencing policy. Unfortunately, no “vigil” is going to help anything, either.
When you say “these people influencing policy”, do you mean the people who wrote the Second Amendment? BTW the Second Amendment was written by liberals.
We have “sensible” gun regulations; many times they are not enforced.
“These people influencing gun policy” are the fools who knee-jerk oppose every proposal for gun regulation, no matter what. The people who say “now is the time to honor and remember the dead” (code words for never do anything). This largely conservative constuency which, as I said, isn’t exactly supportive of mental health care spending either. They show themselves to be hypocrites by pointing fingers at every possible cause but the weapons (which obviously fascilitate easier mass killings).
As to the 2nd Amendment, the idea that “A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed” means that and and all gun regulation should be opposed is absurd.
But you see this from these un-serious people all of the time – faced with real numbers and real tragedies, they parrot “what about the 2nd Amendment?” with the regularity of a cuckoo clock, and with about as much thoughtful consideration of the issue. Which is why they also never address why gun violence is such a problem in the US compared to other Western democracies.
You never miss an opportunity to use a tragedy to advance your political agenda. How pathetic.
What’s pathetic are people who ignore the realities of the world because they don’t fit the dogma that they would prefer to brainlessly repeat.
I addressed the differences between municipal and state laws, but since that doesn’t fit your narrative ,you ignored it and repeated a hollow claim. I even made a precise suggestion that wouldn’t have taken a single gun away, but you didn’t touch that – probably a good idea if you are as incapable of thinking rather than repeating sound bites as it seems.
I ask you to be precise and you run. You oppose doing anything, in the face of both individual tragedies and long term statistics.
The US has gun homicide rates that dwarf those in other western democracies. Anyone with any sense knows this is a problem. Histrionics from insecure reactionaries in a town like Westport hardly helps.
Thank you, Westport; I love you for this…
And I see people like you who want to trample on the rights of individuals as you force them to behave as if they believe as you believe. Do you have any first hand knowledge of the gun regulations that do exist? I think not.
People like you are a bigger threat to society than are owners of legal guns.
EXACTLY what have I done to “trample your rights.” That is the kind of ignorance that we’re dealing with here. If I can’t possess a live grenade, isn’t that a violation of my 2nd Amendment rights.
As to regulations – at the state level? At municipal levels? It is kind of a mish-mash. For instance, when gun nuts talk about how regulations haven’t worked in cities with high crime rates, they ignore the portability of weapons across town and state lines. Taxing weapon and ammo sales to create a pool for victims would be a good national addition (similar to how pharmaceutical sales are).
Now are you going to say something substantial or keep whining like a baby about your “rights” when you don’t even know what you are talking about. Put down your NRA talking points and pretend to think about the issues for a minute.
People who disagree with you are fools, and, nut, and babies and ignorant. People like you are the primary threat to personal freedom. In addition, you are completely ignorant of the regulations that do exist.
Is there any other Amendment you would like to eliminate?
I think we should have a “sensible” regulation of spoons; spoons cause obesity and obesity kills.
No Michael – you are a fool, not people who disagree with me.
For instance, saying “trampling on rights” as an empty platitude is foolish, when you don’t cite any specifics. You disgrace the Constitution when you refer to it so casually. Yes, I’m quite confident that you are a fool, at best.
Right and “sensible gun regulations” is just full of meaning and specificity. You have no idea of what gun regulations exist. You are a ignoramus
If Mr. Petrino truly stands by his remarks, then his definition of “society” is disturbing, hostile, unjust. The epitome of denial.
Nothing will change as long as the NRA remains the third rail of the American government.
Nothing will change as long as citizens pretend nothing is wrong, or simply wave their white flags of surrender (ironically like that of the original confederate flag).
It is always surprising how frightened people seem to be when this topic is broached… suddenly few have an opinion, or care enough to voice one.
Hardly the characterization of an “advanced nation”.
How are things in bugtussle? What do you know of an “advanced nation”? You live in a nation where the citizens had to sue to be able to buy private health insurance. The Canadian Supreme Court ruled in favor of the plaintiffs, holding that for those who are seriously ill, the long wait times were a death sentence. Is that what you call an attribute of an “advanced nation”? Now 67% of Canadians have private health insurance.
Thanks for the insults.
It is not the NRA that is the third rail, it is the US Constitution, but how would you know, you don’t live here.
Oh Michael, we’ve been down this road before.
To clarify, I’ve never claimed perfection, rather try to draw comparisons, both pro and con.
While we will not be able to agree on health care systems, I still wish you could open your mind to gun control as, for instance, Australia has done and with tremendous results.
Here in bugtussle, gang wars are a new and rapidly growing problem, a problem cities are trying to address early with education and resources, rather than turning a blind eye. Wouldn’t want to wait in fear and ignorance.
And, by the way, one does not have to live in the U.S. to recognize its problems… the blood is splashed over newspapers worldwide. Daily.
We have gun control regulations in the US. If you lived here you might be aware of them, but you don’t so you aren’t.
You admit above that the gun regulations fail.
No, the regulations don’t fail, the people enforcing them fail.
A vicious circle, then.
To be clear, is there anything less sincere than “You never miss an opportunity to use a tragedy to advance your political agenda.” Just as when those who oppose althogether any reform said “now is the time to honor and remember the dead” – we know those are simply code words for “do nothing – and maybe after some time goes by you will forget the tragedy and the statistics.”
I’m sure that if a Muslim went into a church and killed nine white people, Michael and his ilk would be all for spending a fortune on homeland security contracts.
Eight people are killed by airbag malfunctions and hundreds of thousands of cars are recalled. Nine people are killed here, 23 in Newtown, and the Michael’s of the world say “let’s not be rash.” Yeah, because the conservative in one of America’s richest and safest communities is worried about not having access to his handgun.
As I have said before, let’s at least pretend to be serious about the issue.
Interesting quotes from Karl Rove on “Fox News Sunday” yesterday, with Chris Wallace:
WALLACE: How do we stop the violence?What do you think?
ROVE: I wish I had an easy answer for that, but I don’t think there’s an easy answer. What do you think? We saw an act of evil. Racist, bigoted evil, and to me the amazing thing is that it was met with grief and love. Think about how far we’ve come since 1963. The whole weight of the government throughout the South was to impede finding and holding and bringing to justice the men who perpetrated the [Birmingham] bombing.What do you think? And here, we saw an entire state, an entire community, an entire nation come together, grieving as one and united in the belief that this was an evil act, so we’ve come a long way.What do you think?
Now maybe there’s some magic law that will keep us from having more of these. I mean basically the only way to guarantee that we will dramatically reduce acts of violence involving guns is to basically remove guns from society, and until somebody gets enough “oomph” to repeal the Second Amendment, that’s not going to happen.
Interesting story from the Guardian and picked up by the NYT.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jun/21/dylann-roof-manifesto-charlston-shootings-republicans
“Leader of group cited in ‘Dylann Roof manifesto’ donated to top Republicans” including Ted Cruz, Rand Paul, and Rick Santorum.
“Earl Holt said it was “not surprising” that Roof was apparently informed by the group’s website as it reported race relations “accurately and honestly”. However, he added: “The Council of Conservative Citizens is hardly responsible for the actions of this deranged individual merely because he gleaned accurate information from our website.””
Whicj is akin to the NRA and it’s supporters saying “don’t blame us for gun violence” – and just as credible.
You political screed to the contrary notwithstanding,one person is responsible for this crime, and he is in custody.
I’m sure that you want people to think that, Michel. Like this killer just came up with ideas out of the blue.
Since you don’t read things that contradict your world view, can I point out that the killer cited this organization? Curious if you are defending the organization?
I stated a fact. One person committed the crime. Deal with it. Are you unable to understand the concept of personal responsibility? You are attempting to advance your political agenda.
No Michael, you are granting yourself absolution for the actions of those who listen to the rhetoric that you seem to support.
The courage of the naive libertarian, I guess.
Sorry Chris, you seem terminally confused. I have supported no rhetoric, you are lying as is your habit. One person is responsible for the crime; period.
Would you regulate internet content because he claims what set him off was some items he read on the internet?
Here’s a loaded question: Do you live anywhere near the Block party shooting in Philadelphia, or the child’s birthday shooting in Detroit?
Of course not.
It is not a loaded question, it is completely irrelevant as is typical of your posts.
Then, what does it cost (in money, not lives) for a NRA membership?
More, or less than your regular taxes?
More nonsense from Bugtussle. You tried to argue that to fully understand the significance of an event, you need to live near it. Yet you live in Bugtussle, Canada and feel free to hold forth on events in the US. You are incoherent.
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Q.E.D.
You seem to view this subject as some childish game, a game you need to win.
Okay then. If it makes you feel better, You Win, Michael!
Now collect your gold star and go tell Mom.
I realize that I’ve fallen into the pit of insulting remarks here, and so I’d like to retract my comment above.
When will people deal with the real issue at hand….raising the bar on parenting and teaching right from wrong and raising children to respect everyone’s ethnicity, color and religious rights. I know I am going to be chastised for this overused remark but “Guns do not kill people…people kill people.” The Confederate flag is offensive to many, only because it was hijacked by a bunch of hate mongering bigoted idiots, and it appears that South Carolina will now address this issue by removing it as a symbol of their history….but the Kardahsian’s are almost equally offensive. When will The hypocrisy in Hollywood end with the continuation and promotion of violent movies, filled with gun violence, made by the same people who demand more gun control… What about all the violent video games which help to desensitize kids to violence overall. It comes down to family values and parenting! There is an old expression….”It is easier to put a fence at the edge of the cliff rather than an ambulance in the valley!” It comes down to prevention… Prevention is teaching tolerance, acceptance and respect for everyone…period!
Also…it is a shame that people have decided to politicize this issue as opposed to discuss the unconscionable act and innocent loss of life at the hands of a hateful bigoted animal…who should be released into the prison’s general population and let the other heinous criminals work it out in about…30 seconds!
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??????? Whatever that means Nancy??????
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I do not speak in question marks only……….
Sorry to be flip, Jamie. Just couldn’t understand the Kardashian reference here, nor the idea of advocating prison murders.
I’ve never grasped the “guns don’t kill people…” notion, or what responsible parenting has to do with this particular subject.
The Kardashians reference was glib.. Animals like the hateful individual who ended 9 innocent people in such a callous manner should be placed freely into the general population and let them deliver justice. Guns, knives, cars, hand grenades, bottles, rocks…whatever…are only tools…they cannot shoot, stab, drive(except for the Google car) throw, break, and toss. Only people can execute these functions. This leads me to parenting… We are all born without the notion of hate…race…color…creed…whatever… Aside from the mentally disturbed…these are taught and learned behaviors. Generally, parents, relatives and friend are the influencing force behind these beliefs. This is logical and sequential thought. Hope this shines some light on my position.
Jamie – I think that the values point is completely fair. More “communitarian” attitudes would certainly make the world a better place.
But easy gun access does contribute to our shockingly high gun homicide rates and certainly makes mass killings much easier.
As to the flag (have I ever been on some online discussions about that one) as a native South Carolinian, the flying of the flag over the state house only began in 1962, during the height of the Civil rights movement. There was never a genuine interest in honoring heritage – it was always meant as a reminder of a bygone era, even as a show of intimidation. If someone wants to fly it in their yard, fine – but not above the state house.
Not sure what to say about the media. I wish parents would control the remote. The Kardashians are bad, but so are the Duggars. Easy for me to say, as I don’t have children, but parents need to parent.
Gun laws and access can be an issue to a degree but look at what happened in Oslo, Norway with some of the strictest gun laws in the world…that was a crazy but who killed over 70 innocent people…mostly kids. My point about the flag…and I agree with you…has become a polarizing symbol to many…is it is so more deeply routed than just a thing that waves in the breeze and that, alone, is not going to heel wounds… As for the Duggar’s…well they are right alongside the Kardashians and the further dumbing of America.
Also, a completely fair point. But that is where I go to some of the overwhelming stats. Yes, the Oslo murders were a terrible situation, but the USA has more than 10.6 gun deaths per 100,000 citizens per year. To find a comparable Western democracy, you have to go to Finland (under 3). France (3), Even Norway is under 2 – less than a fifth of the rate in the US. Our peer nations aren’t even close.
I appreciate your willingness to consider specific information – Michael has lashed out like a fool, but hasn’t addressed a single fact or statistic.
Cutious if Michael is going to answer any of the questions that people ask him on here, or if he is just going to continue to last out without pretending to be able to answer issues. I’ll ask one last question.
Michael – you preach small government and have contributed to Libertarian candidates. Yet you worked for Morgan-Stanley, which benefited from suckling at the taxpayer teat when the idiots running the company found themselves in financial trouble.
Do you routinely think that hypocrisy is a virtue – or only when it benefits Michael Petrino?
Now you are just blithering. The issue was not big government, but the Second Amendment. You must suffer from a learning disorder. You are irrelevant now.
You haven’t answered a single question anyone has asked you, Michael.
Your campaign contribution record is easily searchable – as is anyone’s. You want small government unless there is something in it for you.
Typical libertarian hypocrite. “Don’t let the government disrupt my life until I need a handout.”
More irrelevant information. BTW Chris, this is not the first time you tried to use a tragedy to advance your political agenda is it.
I don’t know why you expect me to reply, because you haven’t answered a single question anyone has asked.
But it’s completely relevant – as my dad well taught me, “always consider the source.” And, as a source of information, you are clearly a hypocrite who avoids not only difficult questions, but all questions. What credibility does a hypocrite have? None.
If by “political agenda” you mean “reducing unnecessary gun homicides to get us more in line with the rest of the western world” I’ll happily accept that. But you keep shouting “2nd Amendment” without addressing specific points, because you are afraid of the issue, prefering empty rhetoric. (Heck, there are a lot of things I’d like to see this country do to get us more in line with the rest of the western world – guilty as charged!)
Is this the first time that you’ve put your head in the sand, in the face of tragedy? Were you one of those fools saying that Newtown or Charleston wouldn’t have happened if only they’d only had armed guards? Do you think others should guard themselves just because you are so insecure that you don’t want the issue considered with reason? Ot is it more of a financial issue – regulation will hurt your portfolio, so you couldn’t care less about 32,000 deaths a year as long as your stocks go up?
Just show the courage to say that you don’t care what tragedies occur as long as we do nothing to address gun violence in this country. But don’t pretend you have any interest in seriously addressing actual policies, because you haven’t made a single policy point in the whole thread. Clearly you aren’t a serious person.
Yawn!
I had hoped from the start that this was a very serious conversation about a very serious subject.
Using the subject of gun control as Entertainment — Trump style, as you do, is a slap in the face to all Americans.
It truly is cowardly of you to play games, Mr. Petrino. Cowardly.
Sincerely,
N W Hunter from Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada.
The conversation was never going to be serious once Chris and you began making personal attacks.
Neither of you is capable of offering a well reasoned argument.
BTW ask your comrade if there are “unnecessary gun homicides” are there necessary gun homicides? How can any one have a serious conversation with someone who offers up such sloppy logic.
Michael, if you look to your first reply to my post, it was childish hystrionics, with no substance.
Then you said that I never miss the opportunity of a tragedy to advance a political agenda. (No, this is more of a request for people to think while the topic resonates.)
Then you say people are “trampling rights of individuals” without really saying how they are being trampled. Just another silly platitude without any real fact behind it.
and etc.
You’ve run from every question, while blaming us? You added nothing of substance – just been a troll. But (as you would say) only one person is not answering questions – you – you can’t blame the actions of anyone else for your cowardice. But that is what you seem to be doing.
You offer more personal insults, and no coherent arguments. It is foolish wasting time trying to have a serious discussion with you and Nancy.
Why should I try to respond to questions that are without any relevance? It would be like trying to talk to a duck.
Michael, sorry but you are a lightweight and a coward.
You had every opportunity to, for instance, address the tax-that-goes-to-a-liability pool idea (that certainly didn’t originate with me) that doesn’t “trample your 2nd Amendment rights” – presumably because you don’t know how to articulate a case that goes outside of NRA talking points.
Think about how ironic it is that you say “one person is responsible” fo a shooting – but when it comes to you taking responsibity for making a reasoned case or answering straightforward arguments, you blame others for you shortcomings.
You might be an old and irrelevant man, but you still have time to grow up.
You made no straightforward arguments; you offered twaddle. Your posts present clear evidence that you have no idea of what gun regulations exist. I cannot remedy your ignorance.
Why should those who are innocent suffer penalties ? One person committed a crime he should pay.
A tax? The first resort of the left. There is no need for a tax.
You are still trying to advance your political agenda in the aftermath of this tragedy; your behavior is reprehensible, but not foreign to you. Reprehensible behavior is your stock and trade.
So I presume that you are clueless as to how pharmaceuticals are taxed in order to cover liability, so to not discourage innovation in what is an inherently risky product.
So you don’t want 2nd Amendment freedom but rather want to be exempted for liability if you wrongly injure someone with a gun. Once again, a libertarian running from accountability as fast as he can.
Dan – this is why we like the real name policy.
Chris, please note below. This discussion is not going to change any minds. It has run its course. It’s over.
This discussion has run its course. Let’s call it a day. No more comments, please.