Last week, the Long Lots School Building Committee voted unanimously in favor of “Concept C.” The plan — one of 6 proposed for the elementary school project — includes construction of a new building on the site of the current baseball field.
A new diamond, in turn, would be developed where the Westport Community Gardens and Long Lots Preserve are now located. A new garden would be built behind the site of the current school.
Long Lots Elementary School Plan C. Click on or hover over to enlarge.
Gardeners and their supporters say it is impossible to reconstruct the 20 years of work and growth — not to mention the soil itself — that’s been put into the 120-plot garden.
Why, they wonder, did Building Committee members — many of whom spoke fondly of the gardens — not consider “Concept C-Alt”? That option would build the new school in the same place as C. However, the garden would remain (with a new soccer field next to it).
Under “C-Alt,” the baseball field could be built behind the present school. The diamond could also be moved to a different location elsewhere in town, if one could be found.
Long Lots Elementary School Plan C-Alt. Click on or hover over to enlarge.
“06880” asked all 7 LLSBC members why they favored “C” over “C-Alt.”
Two responded. They said:
Liz Heyer: “As the Board of Education representative on the committee, I believe that option ‘C’ meets both the requirements and spirit of the educational specifications and will deliver an exceptional new elementary school, while balancing the impacts of all other considerations on the property.
“The challenge with ‘C-Alt’ is the incremental project cost, and the risks associated with placing the field in an area with extreme variations in topography and existing drainage.
“I love and value the Community Gardens. However, as a Building Committee member responsible to Westport taxpayers, I can’t presume and recommend that taxpayers should incur an additional $2.3 million on an already costly project, especially given the many capital projects on the horizon.
“Ultimately, the town governing bodies are responsible for deciding what is in the best interest of the town. And as stated at the meeting, the feasibility option is a work in progress, not a final design plan for construction. Aspects of the project can and may need to change in the design stage.
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Don O’Day: “Concept C keeps every field and the Gardens, but in a rebuilt form. I am not insensitive or unaware of the impact of a do-over for the Community Gardens after 18 years of work. The Gardens are truly impressive, and a rebuild does mean destruction. I get that, and I’m sorry for it.
“Concept C-Alt does show the Gardens in the same place, with a multi-purpose field in the area behind the old school. This cost to build such a field is approximately $2.5 million, and its success is not certain given the topography of the area. It is easier to build a new Garden in that area, as the need for total space and for the land to be almost entirely level is less than that for a field.
“Importantly, all fields and the Garden will be closed for 2 years and certainly subject to damage. That concept doesn’t seem to be accepted but it is the result of building a new school on a relatively small footprint while maintaining the existing school for 600 children and staff.
“It is an objective decision for the greater good, in my opinion. So, that’s why I chose C over C-Alt.”
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(Click here for the full feasibility study.)
Bravo to the committee for working through the multiple options ans weighing each of the pros and cons. While no design will ever make everyone happy, the best solution is one that serves the most. That includes the various uses as well as the associated costs involved tp accomplish each objective. With the potential additional costs of $2-2.5 million dollars to create a field on a potentially unsuitable area, it would be irresponsible for the town to go down that route. The cost per plot for the 120 plots would be around $20,000 a plot just to keep them in their current location. This solution while, upsetting to the gardeners, at least preserves the gardens to remain on site. The current people that can walk there will still be able to walk there and enjoy the gardens for what they are. Relocating them would affect that access. As far as trying to find land to put another field in town, that does not come without its costs. Let alone, the lack of available open space in town. Another field would inevitably impact people as well between the costs and potential loss of whatever the areas current use is.
So it’s ok to upset the established 120+ current families, future families, friends, neighbors with seriously detrimental concerns, organizations that serve our community, businesses and people they serve who are all tangibles to the WCG (not to minimize the direct environmental impact as well) but not ok to impact others that may not be negatively impacted by finding a new ball field?
Asking for a lot of friends.
Bravo to the 120 families who, over 20 years, have created two properties that any other town in America would celebrate, promote and protect.
if the school will remain open, the gardens could remain open, and the town, the client, would dictate to the construction company those parameters. There are many ways to park cars, change gate opening and entry points. I believe the garden closing during construction is a flawed argument.
once again, choosing to build a field and the drainage, instead of leaving a bio diverse 20 year garden is a decision that is wrong, confusing and against our town values.
What’s the benefit of a brand new school? Is Greens Farms School, built in the 1920s, equipped for teaching, yet one built in 1954 and refurbished not still viable to educate students? Tell me why a new school is absolutely needed.
Why not use your money more wisely like starting to bury transmission lines which reduces fire hazards, lowers the risk of power outages, and reduces the risks of traffic accidents. I forgot what a telephone pole looks like because there aren’t any where I live now. You’ll be fine without a brand new school and keeping the community gardens that so many people enjoy.
So there you have it….
1) To keep the Westport Community Gardens in their current 20-year old location would cost $2.3 Million:
That represents $115k for every year that they have been in their current location. Or $46k per year over the life of a 50-year school campus.
For context, Westport paid $840k for the relatively new bathrooms on Compo Beach. Or in contrast we spend almost $8 Million per year on school buses. Over 20 years that would be more than $160 Million. When I proposed reducing the school transportation budget by approx $500,000 per year to reduce the number of High School buses that are less than 20% full – I received zero support. There was zero pushback on the almost $8 Million transportation spend by the Board of Finance. The budget sailed through easily. That was less than 6 months ago.
Question: Are the Westport Community Gardeners and Westport Baseball worth the additional $2.3 Million price tag?
2) It would be “easier” to move the Westport Community Gardens:
There are a lot of things in life that are easier. That doesn’t make them right. 150,000+ hour were put into creating and sustaining these gardens by local residents. Was that easy? For some it may have been – but I am sure it was rewarding for all those members of the community.
Question: Does the Westport community want to do what is “easier” or what is right for our town?
I have a few questions myself:
1) Did the LLBC look into moving the baseball fields to Winslow Park – and what is the cost for this? Why is this option not being chosen or considered?
2) Why is it safe to let 600+ students and staff members at LLS go through a building site every day during construction, but it would be impossible to provide limited weekend-only access through Bauer place entrance or the main entrance to keep the gardens going? These statements were made repeatedly at the LLBC but never discussed in public beyond just making the provocative statements. Maybe by telling the Community Gardeners that their gardens can’t be touched for 2 years will simply silence them? Or is it an attempt to convince the community that they will be destroyed anyway without the use of a single bulldozer?
I think these are important questions.
To our First Selectwoman, Board of Education (which I sit on), and other elected representatives: it’s time to show leadership by building a New Long Lots AND protecting the Westport Community Gardens.
Show Westport that we can do better for its community!
Why is the Board of Education and not Parks & Rec involved with the relocation of the baseball field?
There might be a more creative solution to relocate the baseball field or convert an existing and less used field to a Babe Ruth field. This would maintain the current location of the Community Garden.
This is not a cost analysis problem. Rather we need to ask Who decided the town needed another Babe Ruth sized baseball field more than it needed continuing with a Community Garden?
Who made this decision? When? In which closed door meeting?
We are overdosing on bulls*** here. Let’s pull on some knee-high boots and cut through the crap:
The Long Lots School Building Committee has one charge: recommend whether to renovate the existing school or build a new school, then go do it.
The Board of Education prefers a new school and provided explicit specifications.
The school project can move forward without regard to the addition of Parks and Rec amenities.
The gardens/Preserve do not stand in the way of either a renovated or new school.
A construction site can be managed so as to not interfere with the ongoing business of the garden. Duh.
A baseball field is not within the scope of the school project. It has been pork-barreled in under the cover of an ELEMENTARY SCHOOL.
The higher cost only comes into play because an unnecessary baseball field somehow made it into the Committee’s list of “things we want.”
EVEN IF it was ethical (it’s not) to allow scope-creep to include Parks and Rec baseball whims, the proposal calls for a far grander field than what presently exists. And there will never be a game for 6-8 year-olds on such a gilded field.
Let Parks and Rec figure out what to do about high-level baseball in Westport. Create a committee to study the feasibility of sports needs in Westport then go for it. It is an entirely separate matter altogether.
Move forward with the school and drop the pretense that you must build Yankee Stadium over an endangered, environmentally sound garden and native habitat.
When does Greens Farms School get torn down? It’s almost 100 years old. Surely students can’t learn in that old brick building.
Just checking my facts here- Ms Fava and the LLSBC claim a challenge of our sports fields’ use is that they overlap making one field unusable if the other is in play. Can someone identify the cost of this Babe Ruth field (The Westport Community Gardens Memorial Field) that will be shared with a soccer field and thus NOT solve the problem we currently have?
Still can’t play baseball if there is a soccer game going on.
Why is no one else seeing this? Wouldn’t us tax payers see a better ROI if this “full service” baseball field were built on its own field, say Winslow Park where it could be fully used? Alternatively, the Gardens next to a soccer field would both get used concurrently AND a ball game can go on. And a new school. And the neighbors are happy. Yay for all!
The two sports are typically different seasons. It is very common to combine the two sports fields. Look at Staples, the soccer field overlaps both the baseball and softball field. There is a football field that overlaps softball at Wakeman. Many of the football fields in town are also soccer and lacrosse. Long story short, most fields are not dedicated due to space restrictions.
With all due respect, that is not what they said. Jay Keenan and Jennifer Fava both explained why looking at a field’s use is more complicated because of interference of neighboring field use and the expanded sports seasons for leagues, for-profit outfits, etc. So I question what the truth is still. Is this particular field hardly used because there is little need or because of an another sport being played on the soccer field?
Unfortunately Ms Fava buried that information in her report.
I got it! If baseball and the soccer fields are actually NOT in conflict use as Mr. Roberts claims, how about overlaying the ball field with one of the soccer fields in the lower field (right side of new school)? Ok problem solved.
Liz Heyer, shame on you. You represent the BOE …. Not Parks and Rec, and are not even a voting member of the committee. Your advocacy should be for the BOE and Schools. Oh, I see…. You are running for higher office.
Well now we wait to see whether there is any leadership in Town Hall or if the sole purpose of the LLSBC was simply to take the heat for such an unpopular decision. Based on the way the public was treated during their deliberations if the latter is indeed true then Ms. Tooker certainly selected the right people.
I will say that if the First Selectwoman proceeds with the committee’s recommendation that she would be building her new “show field” on what would then have become a graveyard.
My children are all recent college graduates (and, incidentally all products of Westport’s wonderful K-12 schools) but if they were HS baseball players I’m pretty sure they would think twice about pursuing recreation on cursed ground.
How much will it cost to tear down the old Long Lots building and haul it away? Then add that cost to constructing a brand new school during high inflation! So you’re telling me doing that is cheaper than fixing up the existing building? That’s impossible!
I am new to the gardens and have invested a little cash to get my plot started this year and upgrade my soil a bit. However, the amount of cash I have spent is minimal to the amount of reward I have reaped from the garden. I came to the garden looking for a place to grow some veggies and flowers out of reach from the deer who devour everything in my back yard. What I have found is a community of lovely, interesting people from age 5 to 86 and everywhere in-between, all with a common thread, gardening.
I am not political in nature because I don’t have the temperament for it. I don’t pick sides. I know what is right and wrong which I learned from my wonderful parents (no longer here but still a major part of who I am) and what they ingrained in me over my lifetime. I do not think the garden ever had a chance in this “fight”
The committee and the RTM and the BOF and the first select-person can all say it is about the finances and the greater good of the town. You can read in Dan’s 06880 and the Westport news all the comments about how the garden serves few and the ball field many and so on and so on. The things that drew me here were the community and the schools quite frankly. My husband grew up in Stamford and knew the area and said, “we have to move to Westport they have the best schools” That is not lost on me I grew up in Philadelphia in a very rough area where public schools were horrific, they were not only very poorly run but also a safety issue. So, my parents who didn’t have the means sacrificed and sent me and my siblings to private (Catholic) school.
My children have all gone through public school here in Westport and have all successfully graduated college and are on their way into the world as productive humans so kudos to the Westport school system! My kids have also played sports in town, little league, lacrosse, tennis, soccer, and I have worked the concession stands on those cold fall days selling candy bars and big-league chew from the little wooden shack. Would they have benefited or been better if they had swanky turf baseball diamonds with bleachers and dugouts and scoreboards? I doubt it.
The whole controversy about the garden and the school is not about the school? The school needs to updated or rebuilt, got it, but don’t hide behind that for your other agendas because that is just insulting to garden community. You don’t care about us because we are small and you are big. It’s just like the bully on the playground who wins because he is bigger and he can. Is it fair? Nope. Is it life? Yup. Will it come back around at some point when there is literally NO open green space but a turf field to hang out on in the town. I hope so. And then maybe the people in town will plow over a baseball field to plant a garden.
I truly appreciate the work of this committee and the long hours that surely entailed. As a parent of a 7th and 8th grader during the CMS mold relocation and renovation, I fully support a new, safe, healthy, and functional school. I’m also a gardener and, for eleven years, have been a part of the Westport Community Gardens and run the fresh food donation effort there.
This entire process has been frustrating and painful. The Gardeners have a huge stake in this outcome, yet have not been engaged by the committee during the process in any way. To make our voices heard, we have been forced to basically “shout into the void” as we express our dismay at public meetings (when allowed to speak), on lawn signs around town, and through op-ed articles and online comment sections. Thank goodness for Dan’s continued coverage of this topic.
Now, with one viable option on the table to preserve the Community Gardens in their current site, the committee has unanimously voted against it. Hope for preserving our beloved Gardens has dimmed and the reasoning is… drainage issues? And $2m over the lifetime of the project?
I find these arguments flawed for multiple reasons.
First, is the narrative that it is “keeping” the Community Gardens and Long Lots Preserve which comes with the $2m price tag. It’s is not. Leaving the Gardens and surrounding Preserve alone doesn’t cost $2million. This is the cost of building a High School-level ball field behind the school on the campus.
Another is the statement that a ball field wouldn’t work behind the school because of the topography and drainage challenges. The Garden and surrounding Preserve have the same challenges. We have low-lying areas that are literally underwater after heavy rains. Dan published a photo on Saturday that I took of my boots in 3-inches of Standing water. I was standing on the spot where the future home plate would be located.
These drainage issues will be far worse with a proposed ball field with artificial turf surface on this spot. The current garden walkways, soil, and plantings absorb a huge quantity of water and will be gone in plan C. I believe that the Long lots School neighboring homeowners have argued the same point.
It is a false spin to state that the Gardens would be the huge cost to taxpayers and that the drainage issues will all go away by putting a ball field on the site.
Dan, thank you for allowing me to shout into the void on this issue again.
https://06880danwoog.com/2023/10/07/online-art-gallery-182/
Here’s a link to the image that I referenced — scroll to the bottom — this has been the drainage situation at the future “home plate” for the past two weekends.
Amy, I agree with everything you wrote. But “ Dan, thank you for allowing me to shout into the void on this issue again” struck me particularly hard. After the RTM29 voted last week to take away our legal right to petition the RTM, this blog and the Westport Journal are really the only place for Westporters to have an open dialogue about matters of concern. In fact several of the RTM29 cited the existence of these blogs as proof that ordinary citizens could have their voices heard. A pretty lame argument used to deny a legal right to petition the government, especially when our elected and appointed officials rarely if ever deign to participate in these online discussions. Yet that is what we got.
Oy vey.
To love and value something, you need to be involved with it, Liz.
As far as “additional cost” to keep the gardens where they are, give me a break. The gardens are not being covered by a new school. A small underutilized baseball field and a small soccer field are. Take the $1/2 million in pork barrel money for Parks And Rec to build a synthetic turf field with bleachers and a scoreboard over an environmental oasis, add in a $1/4 million that you think it will take to build a new community garden and build equitable resources for these two small field somewhere else in town. Or maximize the use of the fields that you have right now.
Stop making a community garden and Long Lots Preserve your sacrificial lamb.
And stop having the fox investigate the chicken coop here.
On another note, here is what another town in Connecticut (Hamden), is doing with Community Gardens and schools… Sounds pretty good!
What on earth is happening to this town?
https://www.nhregister.com/news/article/comm-gardens-coming-to-hamden-elementary-schools-18093505.php
The LLSBC had no business getting involved in decisions regarding Parks and Rec ballfields or the Parks and Rec Community Garden. The BOE mandate (the actual mandate, not the “spirit” of the mandate) requested that outdoor play areas for the children be placed adjacent to the gymnasium and cafeteria. It has been established by the town attorney that the WCG IS NOT ON THE SCHOOL PROPERTY. For those who keep saying “It’s all about the students”, please understand that Long Lots students will not be playing on this proposed field. The WCG is all the way across the parking lot from the school and will be even farther away from the proposed new school. Let’s stop pretending that this field is for the school. If Parks and Recs wants to bulldoze the Garden, let them stand up and say so, rather than let the LLSBC destroy the Garden under pretense of a school rebuild. If Parks and Rec is so desperately short of fields, why have they not done anything about it up until now? Is it too much to ask that Parks and Rec come up with a plan for a new field (if one is even needed) that doesn’t include destroying Westport’s one and only, national award-winning town Garden? We have 21 ball fields in town. We have one town Garden that was build BY HAND over 20 years by hundreds of town residents. Even if the current field on LLS is lost for two years, I have no doubt that Westport kids will still get to play ball. By contrast, bulldozing the Garden will be the end of the Garden. It’s not moveable. Most of the current gardeners that I’ve spoken to just don’t have the heart to put in the back-breaking work of building a new garden after being treated so disgracefully. The LLSBC hasn’t even mentioned that their recommendation also calls for destroying the newly planted Long Lots Preserve. Hundreds of native trees and shrubs have been planted to create an ecological oasis on land that the town has neglected for 20 years. Fairfield’s first selectwoman was cutting a ribbon to open their town’s new Pollinator Park this past week. I would love to see our first selectwoman step up to save our existing nature preserve and ecologically irreplaceable town Garden. Do the right thing, Westport. it’s not always the easiest thing.
Tearing down the school, hauling it away, and then landscaping, what do you think, $200,000? Can the committee who voted unanimously provide a concrete answer? Can it be more? Have you factored in this cost?
No, Jack. The committee is only providing the concrete.
Elizabeth, I didn’t mean concrete as in cement. I meant concrete as in “ definitive.” Have them give us a definitive answer for the price! My guess is $200,000 with landscaping! Then you have the expense, with inflation, of building a new school- and don’t forget the 10% overrun which is almost inevitable!
Jack, you were played
Bravo Elizabeth
Patrick, I thought she might have been kidding, but I decided to put in my “ two cents” one more time. Hopefully there will be a change in the decision!
Re: the baseball field….not that Westport needs another one…but using artificial turf is a horrible decision. Jen Fava should speak with Conservation and get educated on the harmful pitfalls of using artificial turf which poisons our ground water with forever chemicals. Just ask our neighbors in Norwalk who had to shutdown 2 public wells for PFAS migration due to artificial turf.
and there are all the waterways running underl all the long lots neighborhoods we have learned
Time for the neighbors to sue on that fact alone…
The construction of artificial turf fields with crumb rubber and other toxic infill materials has been prohibited in Westport since 2018.
Wendy, thanks for that piece of useless knowledge.
It won’t be that exact spec of artificial banned turf, it will be some other soon to be no doubt banned garbage, that just has not been banned “yet” . But as usual you completely missed the point.
Any artificial turf has PFAS and forever chemicals….trust me Wendy….it is all of them.
Thanks Jaime for clarifying the PFAS. I didn’t think Wendy had a clue.
Saying goes…
You can’t fix stupid, but you can sure vote it out of office…
Oh not even… not this time around… running uncontested..
This personal insult is so uncalled for. Grow up.
It’s crunch time so let’s stop playing nice & face facts. the facts are loud & clear based on usage Westport does NOT need another baseball field. It should no longer be part of any Long Lots School discussion.
I wrote this as a private resident and my comments must not reflect those if any organization with which I am affiliated. I am a Long Lots resident with a child in 4th grade, and a 14 year old who plays competitive travel baseball on Babe Ruth size fields. I believe our Selectwoman should propose C Alt and save the gardens. The children of Ling Lots benefit far more from the gardens than a ball field, which was NEVER requested our BOE. There was a lack of transparency in this process. The baseball field does not serve elementary baseball, and should be located elsewhere. The Long Lots families need a new school as soon as possible, but not at the expense of the neighbors or the greater good.
Has the LLSBC factored in the loss of property value to the Long Lots homes which will now be next to a loud, bright baseball field instead of a quiet Garden/Preserves which serves as a sponge in an already flood prone area?
As I said before, the children are our future and we need to do what is best for them. I feel we should do what is best for the greater good. only about 150 people can use the community gsrdens, many more people will benefit with plan c. I vote to move the gardens to a larger area so more people could benefit
“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt…” – Abraham Lincoln
“Only about 150 people use the community gardens…” So…we should just plow it under and throw it away?
What is your participation threshold for something of value? If you want to build ANOTHER garden somewhere else – just as we have multiple marinas – that’s lovely providing you can find enough folks willing to put in the work and expense over decades to build something as special as WCG.
Joan – few doubt that we must do the right thing by our LL Elementary School students with what I’m sure will be a wonderful new school – but they won’t even play on the proposed new ball field as it is meant for HS students and adults not those in the elementary school, and it could be built in several other places in Westport.
Respectfully, I would suggest that you educate yourself on the Horticultural benefits of long standing gardens such as Westport’s – If you cannot find resources I will be glad to connect you – you might find a garden visit informative too if you haven’t done so already.
Other neighbor towns in CT are building these facilities rather than tearing them down to put plastic ball fields on top of where they used to be.
Let’s not get nasty. I do have a garden in my yard. I have a right to voice my opinion as do yours . The children will eventually use that baseball field.
I would still like to know how our town’s leadership, and Rec. department continue to look the other way regarding all the illegal baseball fields signage. Our town has very specific zoning rules regarding the use of signs. The enforcement of those rules are ignored for baseball only. Why can’t business advertising signs and banners be used for Soccer, Football, Basketball, Swimming, Golf and other activities? Either properly enforce the current laws on the books, to be fair to all sports, or re-write the laws to allow baseball this unique exception. I love baseball, but since when does our town accept that “the-powers-that-be”, can pick and choose what rules apply to some, but not all?
Public Meeting Sunday, Oct 15 as posted by Town of Westport. Public is welcome.
The Westport Board of Finance will visit Long Lots School. It’s a public meeting. Here is the posted notice:
BOARD OF FINANCE AND
LONG LOTS ELEMENTARY SCHOOL BUILDING COMMITTEE NOTICE OF SITE VISIT
Sunday, October 15, 2023
9AM
The Board of Finance and the Long Lots Elementary School Building Committee will have a site visit to Long Lots Elementary School, 13 Hyde Lane, Westport, on Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 9AM.
To Selectwoman Tooker, PLEASE don’t bulldoze the native nature preserve and pollinator pathway community garden. We can come up with a more creative solution, one that retains the existing gardens and preserve, promotes sustainability, and teaches our kids that they too can be part of the solution.
This entire process has been shady to put it mildly. Plans for renovation were discussed and drafted behind closed doors for months prior to including the stakeholders who are truly invested in this land (and by sheer luck at that). This intentional exclusion and an unwillingness to collaborate, listen, or even slightly alter the committee’s original path makes it very clear that finding the best solution for the school was never the priority.
The easiest solution? Maybe. The solution that gives an extremely overweighed preference to a single sport played by some high schoolers (and largely sits empty and unused)? Most definitely. The plan that promotes ‘sustainability’ while taking actions that directly oppose that value? You bet it does.
This plan and process feel like something that would have happened in the 80’s or 90’s – bulldoze a nature preserve and community garden to make room for a gigantic turf baseball field. Decisions like that were more common back then BEFORE we knew better.
NOW we understand the environment impact of destroying beneficial green spaces like this. Now we know how important pollinators are for our survival. NOW we know the dangers of toxic turf fields and their complete lack of environmental benefits (except for a declining sport that was much more popular in the 90’s). NOW we know how clearing land increases the impact of flooding (we just watched 8 inches of rain fall in a matter of hours in NYC, these events are exacerbated by climate change and will only continue!). NOW we know all of these things, and we’ll do something about it, right?
PLEASE don’t make the same mistake we would have made decades ago. We’re smarter now, we know how the changes we make to our environment affect us and we need to think with the future in mind. Selectwoman Tooker, I implore you to direct the committee to update their plans to retain the existing nature preserve and community gardens and find somewhere else for a ball field if that’s entirely necessary (and please make it out of something less toxic than artificial turf).
great comments I encourage you to send them to every public official in this town and to every person in the long lots neighborhoods and beyond!