A decision on whether to renovate Long Lots Elementary School, or build a completely new one, was expected by the end of August.
Last night — August 31 — the Long Lots School Building Committee met again, without taking action. A decision now appears a few weeks away.
In a packed small conference room at Town Hall, an overflow crowd watched as the committee looked at half a dozen plans.
It appears that the “renovate in place” option is unlikely.
The status of the Westport Community Gardens and Long Lots Preserve also remains unclear.
One of the plans presented (below) would replace the gardens with a Babe Ruth-sized baseball diamonds (lower left on the drawing). The gardens would be relocated to a wetlands area nearby.
A second plan shows a new school, built on the current Gardens and Preserve site:
(Drawings courtesy of Toni Simonetti, Westport Front Porch)
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Twenty years of cultivation replaced by a Babe Ruth Ball Field??!!!! What is wrong with this picture? Don’t we have enough ball fields now?
Looks like the plan was to eliminate the gardens from the get-go but the adverse reaction has foiled their plans ‼️😂
I hope we can keep up the pressure to force them to stay away from thr gardens. For a town that supposedly values green space, this idea is mindboggling. I wonder what LEGAL remedies we the residents have? Might soon be time to ‘go there’.
There are several steps along the way before the project is approved. Board of Finance and RTM are the funding bodies that’d have to approve it before a single root was touched to build a school. And if those bodies approve it, there’s always a referendum, which would require the signatures of 10% of registered voters (1929 signatures, or so) to launch. It’d then require a majority of those voting in the referendum to overturn a funding decision, but with the caveat that at least 20% of registered voters would need to show up and vote in the referendum. Really hope it doesn’t come to that.
The same 10% of registered voters can put a recall of the First Selectwoman on the ballot.
Given her bungling of the parking lot and the Gardens and complete lack of transparency on these issues, I think we can minimally call her performance “misfeasance”.
I don’t know what to say about the Committee anymore. They seem to be dead set focused on doing whatever they want to do without any regard for anything else. Your democracy at work.
Take it off the table already.
This debacle has already set such a poor, sad example for the Long Lots kids about their school causing the loss of the garden and Preserve.
Thank you for publishing these two heartbreaking plans. Also last night the LLBSC Chair surprised all of us, including some committee members, with this nugget: Parks and Rec is right now conducting a search for land elsewhere to relocate various things… INCLUDING THE GARDENS. This study is expected to be complete next week, according to the Chairman. Oh, and P&R Commission is not only mum on this, but rather coy in seeming to rebuff requests to add the matter to their next meeting agenda.
This is NOT what Selectwoman Jen Tooker often describes as a totally transparent process.
In option 2 you’ll have kids walking through parking lots to get to the playing fields. That doesn’t seem safe to me.
I’m struggling with the thinking here. Why on Earth does an elementary school require a high school varsity baseball field? Yet, here we are — proposing to bulldoze the 20-year thriving ecosystem at the Community Gardens, along with the established Long Lots Preserve to make it happen.
The current WCG/LLP site is not only the product of painstaking work by thousands of volunteers over countless hours; it’s a habitat for local species of birds, wildlife, and pollinators; it’s an important environmental space deliberately populated with native species of trees and shrubs; and it’s also a buffer for the neighboring homes whose residents will be acutely aware of this massive, multi-year construction project.
The proposed plans are heartbreaking to the Gardening community, but the impact of this project will have profound effects far beyond the Gardens, themselves.
Moving a garden to wetlands? Nothing signifies fruitful gardening better than ‘wetlands’. And aren’t wetlands in Westport generally protected anyway?
It would be nice to get all the constituents in the room: Parks & Rec, BOE, LLBSC and the Selectwoman (along with the homeowners surrounding LL, the parents of LL elementary school and Stepping Stones, etc. Seems that there’s too much heresy, he said she said, etc. Every time I go to a LLBSC meeting, new nuggets come out that would even throw a wrench to Sherlock Holmes.. As Westporters, I am sure that we are all happy that this is a feasibility study that has go to many processes and approvals. This is not a slam dunk based upon one recommendation or one individual. I do thank the LLBSC for switching to a new room for their meetings and continuing to allow and provide for an extensive Q&A. Their volunteer hours and devotion is definitely appreciated, albeit perhaps the end result may not be.
I posted these facts on the Long Lots Building Committee Facebook page, hoping to open a discussion based on facts. I’d like to get it out to a wider audience for commentary. I’ve read and heard of town officials saying the opposite of what these facts suggest. I’m of the mindset that removing the baseball field would not even inconvenience the baseball community. Even if it never was replaced. And by the way, most of my closest friends to this day were made on the ballfields during grammar school. I love baseball! Let’s discuss:
Oftentimes we trust information we get and never bother to verify. On a few occasions, it has been shared with the community through various sources that the town has difficulty scheduling baseball games. It resonated with me recently when a neighbor that lives near Long Lots School posted that they hadn’t remembered ever seeing a baseball game being played at Long Lots School. I felt the same way.
So, I went into the Westport Advanced Baseball website and looked at the master schedule. Here are the facts:
Long Lots field is not a field that is played on by presently attending Long Lots students.
It is a full-size field currently being used by 13- and 14-year-old children.
The Spring/Summer season is from April 1 – July 31. For 2023, there are 6 days the Long Lots field was being used for the season.
On every one of those 6 days, 3 other full-size fields in town were available (Doubleday, Wakeman and Staples).
The fall season consists of September and October. There was 1 game scheduled last year at Long Lots (the schedule for this year isn’t online yet).
These facts contradict the false narrative that there is difficulty scheduling baseball games. The community should be aware that they could be sacrificing a valuable environmental asset for 7 days of baseball games, which could be scheduled elsewhere, in the same 7 months that the garden is most active and populated with gardeners every day.
The idea of dismantling or relocating the Community Gardens for any reason is selfish. The substitution of a playing field is outrageous and no resident, especially no school person, parent or child should support such selfishness. We also have a new issue, namely, how to maintain the gardens during construction.. My expectation is that solutions can be found since the parking spaces used by the gardeners are few and access can be available from alternatives. Limiting the gardeners to the weekends during construction seems like a sensible possibility. The gardens need to be maintained throughout construction.
I heard two different things last night. One: they are juggling all the existing pieces to make them fit on the property, while at the same time enlarging the school. Two: they want to bring in Stepping Stones, that is not currently on the property, so not an existing piece. Which one is right ? Also, what would happen to the Stepping Stones site if they transfer to Long Lots ?
I am curious as to a proposal which incorporates building the community gardens on wetlands. While it is unlikely that those who have already developed their gardens from scratch (now 3 times for some) would have the stamina to begin this effort yet again, would anyone who signs on to Community Gardens 4.0 be leasing a piece of swampland or would the town fill in the wetlands (something which of course no residential property owner is allowed to do.) I know that there are many instances where Westport exempt’s town property from regulations that burden homeowners, but in this instance displaced water would certainly impact neighboring homes and could result in expensive litigation and also well lengthen the build’s timeline. And also, you know, that whole environmental impact thing.
Dear Voters and Residents of the Town of Westport:
Please see the video below that provides an overview of the magnitude and beauty of the Westport Community Gardens and Long Lots Preserve.
The Westport Community Gardens have been in place for 20 years. They have received repeated and unanimous town approvals over those 20 years. They are model of community building, environmental stewardship, an educational opportunity. The educational opportunities presented by the gardens and preserve property are currently being explored by the Westport Public Schools. We expect this to ultimately result in the use of the Community Gardens by the school and the use of the preserve and the gardens for field trips and Environmental study.
The Long Lots Preserve is a model of suburban open space environmental rehabilitation. It is exactly what we should be doing as a community and it is a great opportunity to teach our kids how to care for this planet.
There has been nothing in the mandates given to the Long Lots School Building Committee that includes utilizing the land currently occupied by the Westport Community Gardens and the Long Lots Preserve. At last nights meeting, the committee was unable to address the specific question about where the idea to put a ballfield on top of the gardens and preserve came from. They just did it?
To the neighbors of the property… A ballfield will bring noise, garbage, and ultimately lights. And flooding.
We will continue our efforts to educate the residents of Westport about the value that the Westport Community Gardens and the Long Lots Preserve bring to the town.
While significant development and loss of green space occurs around us, we are an increasingly valuable, environmental oasis. The pollinator value of this property is phenomenal. On the east side of town, where the gardens and preserve are located, there has been a significant amount of development and consequent loss of trees. We are getting trees in the ground on the Long Lots Preserve.
Additionally, with a significant increase in the amount of apartments and condos created in that neighborhood, and throughout town, the Westport Community Gardens and Long Lots Preserve create the opportunity for increased outdoor recreation, particularly growing space.
The recreational opportunities presented by these gardens for our elderly population is significant. That is meaningful.
Teaching our kids where food comes from, the value of nutrition, how the environment works, including pollination, water cycles, nutrient cycles, food webs, food chains, ecological succession, soil science, and so many other topics associated with gardens and open space is meaningful.
Please come for a visit sometime.
Please understand that “moving” or “relocating“ the Westport Community Gardens and and Long Lots Preserve means destroying them, eliminating them and starting over.
This is an election year. Please, write to your local elected officials, including the Board of Selectwomen, the Board Of Finance, the Board Of Education, the Planning And Zoning Commission, and the RTM. That all play a role here. Some more than others.
I firmly believe that any other town in America would support, celebrate and protect what we have created here.
https://youtu.be/lGceWZ_1Os0?si=zg3tFdKtocX8dvhJ
Louis Weinberg
Chairman, Westport Community Gardens
Director, Long Lots Preserve
Lou, I have been told that some people who are opposed to the destruction of the Community Garden have been actively discouraged by some people from trying to get the matter on the RTM Agenda via a petition.
However, if you were to do so, and could get the matter on the RTM agenda, you’d be able to hear directly from current and prospective RTM members exactly where they stand on this matter. Before the election. And as the next RTM (not the current RTM) could likely be the only thing standing in the way of the Comunity Garden’s destruction I’d think those in favor of keeping the CG as is would like to know where RTM candidates stand on the matter.
A petition which asks the RTM to review and vote on a Sense of the Meeting resolution on teh Community Garden might be harder to keep off the agenda than the Parker Harding petition. Good luck.
And here is a link to the petition template. Have fun. https://www.westportct.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/9499/636934866377170000
Should Lou Weinberg be the primary petitioner?
LMK where to sign…
Thanks – James Mather
Geeze, I know the Westport Community Gardens is under the umbrella of Parks and Rec. but it sure feels like the fox is guarding the hen house. We need support from Westport residents to save this 20-year old, irreplaceable, majestic green gem that is part of Westport’s soul. Ironically, it’s the LLBC, not the Gardeners, who are stuck in the weeds and see the WCG as a problem to be bulldozed instead of as the gift it is! Please write town officials, run for RTM and voice your support on both Dan Woog’s wonderful blog and the Westport Journal. Thank you Dan Woog for keeping Westport informed on this issue!
This is an excerpt from a letter I wrote to the First Selectwoman on August 17. If Westport needs new fields to replace those that may be affected by the Long Lots School project, it should consider the following:
There is no requirement for ball and soccer fields to be located on the school property. The Committee and the Parks and Recreation team should think outside that box and inventory other possible sites to meet the need for sports fields, namely:
• Winslow Park. A prime candidate is 29 acres of very lightly used real estate. There are many areas within Winslow that could be graded to build additional soccer fields, a championship baseball field and parking. Walking trails could coexist with the new sports facilities. Winslow Park has enough space that even the most strident dog owners should not object if the playing fields are separate from the areas they have claimed. As a reference, Yankee Stadium’s playing field is 3.5 acres, and the average size of an adult soccer field is less than 2 acres.
• Property at Longshore near the overflow golf parking area might accommodate soccer field(s).
• The large unused parking lot below the Women’s Club for baseball and soccer. (May be prevented during a few days of the Yankee Doodle Fair).
• Move the location of the Westport Farmers Market and use the property for baseball and soccer. Possible options a include:
a) Rental of a church parking lot for a day during the week when it is not in use by the church.
b) The far reaches of the parking lot at Longshore beach are seldom in use during the week except for holidays.
c) Consider closing a street or parking area in central Westport. This would be a festive weekly attraction during the season.
While there are probably a lot of issues involved in the Long Lots School area, rehabilitating the area could be more creative and would be a big win for the environment. Wet land, gardens and animals are a major priority for Westporters. Our preservation of the environment is a major inspiration for folks outside of the town. If the long lots gardens are moved to the wetlands, will that necessitate the destruction of the wetlands? Please consider a refurbishment for the school. Thank you.
It’s disheartening that a town, which proudly banned plastic bags in 2009 and was among the first in Connecticut to commit to becoming Net Zero by 2050, is now seriously considering constructing an unnecessary ball field on top of a 20-year-old community garden and preserve instead of exploring numerous alternative sites.
I wasn’t able to attend the LLBC meeting last night, so I’m certainly commenting without a complete body of info. I also want to say that I know all of the members of that group are working very hard at the first stages of a very, very difficult job. They deserve our gratitude and thanks for their work.
That said, as an RTM member, I feel strongly with any appropriation that I’m spending the money of ALL Westport taxpayers. In this case, not just the subset (approx 33%) with kids in the WPS system, and not just the sub-set of that subset who has kids at LLS and not just the subset of that subset that has kids playing baseball at LLS. What percentage of the students at LLS plays baseball? I don’t understand the obsession/necessity of that field? Is LLS some kind of feeder school for Major League Baseball? What’s wrong with using all the other fields in Town, as mentioned by other commenters?
I’m sure that we’ll have more and productive conversations about this – I’m open minded and look forward to learning more. At this stage, however, I simply can’t see a justification for destroying the Gardens that have meant so much to so many for so long for something that benefits so few.
There is a watershed behind the WCG’s that runs through Cottage Lane and Bauer Place. Clearly the gardens and Preserve absorbs a lot of water, which is the best case scenario for neighbors south, east and west of the gardens. In fact, one person at a Building Commission meeting mentioned that when sewers were installed on Bauer there was a river when they dug down!! Displaced water has to go somewhere as the residents on Iris Lane know all too well.
Margaret is absolutely correct. Part of the property between the old miniature golf and the back of Westport Lanes would be considered wetlands. The surface never became dry. I remember before 1957, we farmed rhubarb on the property and it was always wet where the parking lot is. Gloria G. could give some real insight into this.
I meant to write before 1953, not 1957. Our farming stopped in 1953.
Let me start out by saying I’m a baseball enthusiast, have loved the game for almost 60 years but I’m not surprised @ all by those FACTS posted by Mr. Haggerty.. It pains me to say the town doesn’t need anymore baseball fields (little league or full size). Unfortunately participation in baseball in this town has dropped dramatically. There are now ONLY 4 teams in the majors (grades 5-7) which is approximately 45 kids, for contrast when my son played in the majors a decade ago there were 10 teams & we had enough fields. If there were enough little league fields for 10 teams there are certainly enough for 4 teams and as Mr Haggerty’s research shows there are certainly enough full size fields even without having Long Lots as being one of them. The question that begs to be answered is why would this town consider displacing the beautiful Westport Community Gardens utilized by 125 families for a baseball field which is not needed? Unless I’m missing something then it makes no sense @ all to move the garden. Take it off the Table!
Sad is the word that comes to mind. That the town has zero regard for the garden is just plain sad. I am hard pressed to believe that we need another baseball field in this town or that there is not another spot it can occupy. Also that fact that there is no consideration for the 100+ tax paying gardeners who vote and also matter is also just sad. The town needs a new elementary school I agree but why does it need to destroy the garden to accomplish this? And to tout that its cost effective to plow over the garden for a school is bull, its cost effective to build a new school where it is and use the existing ball fields. The entire town is so far out of whack on its priorities.
My children are out of school and college as well but there was a day where I had to purchase lacrosse goalie equipment for my daughter because it was “not in the budget” NOT IN THE BUDGET to provide safety equipment for sports?
The fact that the committee continues to be unwilling to even open up a larger room so folks can be a part of the meeting is ridiculous. This town modifies the circumstances and budget to fit their needs and professes to give a crap only when it suits them or their reelection so hopefully the gardeners will take that with them to the polls.
This isn’t remotely close to being over.
Lobby your elected representatives persistently and make your intent clear at the ballot box – (RTM / BOF / BOE / P&Z etc.) as I have done – run for RTM if you have the time, and let’s explore legal remedies as well as ballot initiatives and recall elections – this is without doubt a bipartisan issue. As a community we can do much better.
Any input welcome…why there is no one from the WCG on the LLSBC is shocking to me and Parks and Rec are just taking the easy way out, presumably at the behest of the First Selectwoman – they won’t even put this issue on their agenda I’m advised.
Congratulations gardeners – here’s some nice shiny wetlands for you…
SMH
Eliminating, that is, destroying, a community garden and a nature preserve. What elected official would want to have that happen on their watch? And is there any citizen in town who is actually in favor of it? Not in any forum I’ve been reading. Please, leave the gardens and the Preserve intact!
Yes Michelle, the word ‘Sad’ indeed describes our heavy hearts at the thought of these joyful, giving Gardens being bulldozed for a supersized baseball field. How any of these officials who have walked through the Gardens and not felt wonder and awe and goodness is truly unfathomable to me. And yet, they keep plowing ahead with their plans, invisible blinders and earmuffs firmly in place. It’s saddening and maddening. I hope the residents of Westport stand up and collectively say – Take It Off The Table. I can’t imagine being involved in the destruction of such beauty.
Can anyone clarify the uses of the base ball field now and in the plans? Is this the area where the Long Lots Elementary students use for recess and physical education? Or is there another field that students use for recess and physical education?
It seems as if many of the commenters believe the field is used solely for sporadic babe Ruth league games. But is this the truth? If this field is needed for elementary students’ recess and physical education, people need to know this.
The redevelopment of LLS raises specific town wide drainage issues which need to be addressed as early as possible in the planning process.
It is a multi million dollar project and gives Westport the chance to rethink and design its storm and surface water requirements.
At the last meeting I asked the question what storm are we planning for.
I got two answered 100 year storm and 25 tear storm vastly different.
I understand current planning for new construction is for the 25 year storm.
There are numerous examples around town of this being insufficient.
The Town needs better standards and has fine engineers and architects who can produce them promptly.
Lets not hide behind out of date State guidelines, its Westport lets get the job done.
If we be the first to do
Plastic bags surely we can do storm drains ?
The Community Garden and Preserve contain very large amounts of surface water which there is no need to divert to lower areas and Muddy Brook
Especially during construction before retaining basins and systems are constructed.
Nobody doubts we need a better school but lets get it right.
In this case potential surface water diversion should be considered as more important than a ball field.
Take it off the table.
Earlier this year, when the Westport Dept. of Education decided to rebuild and rearrange Long Lots School facilities, I decided to take a look at why the Town of Westport initially decided to purchase the land which the Westport Community Garden (WCG) currently occupies.
I had heard that Connecticut has been a leader in attempting to preserve and conserve the state in which we live, protecting its air and water, and even the beauty and peacefulness found in this state.
So I was not surprised when I checked the (GIS) databases at the Department of Energy & Environmental Protection (DEET). There I found that the land in question was noted as being classified as “Protected Open Space” land. (I have copies of the identifying papers and maps.) While the the written pages accompanying the maps of the Protected land, is written in shorthand – which I cannot read, except for one element: “The Grantee of the Protected Open Space” classification was granted to “The Town of Westport.”
(Note that when I, again, contacted an agent at DEEP, in July, 2023, for further information, she told me that she “was not sure the document I asked about is correct, and has consequently asked that it removed from their public database.)
I also learned that the state grants Open Space classification to land used for recreation (fishing, ballfields, etc.) However, some organizations supporting and funding Open Space classification will not support the granting of Open Space to athletic field that require extensive development.
I found that a Westport Planning and Zoning Commission, meeting in October, 2005, approved Resolution #05-071, specifying that the two properties purchased from the Jaeger family would be turned into both a parking lot and a community garden. The Resolution specified that the reasons for accommodating a community garden: (1) it would “be in conformance with the 1997 Town Plan of Conservation and Development (the ‘Green Plan’);” (2) “It would not have a significant adverse affect on adjacent areas located within the close proximity to the use; (3) it would not obstruct significant views, which are important elements in maintaining the character of the Town or neighborhood in favor of promoting the general welfare and conserving the value of buildings; and would be compatible with surrounding buildings.”
I am not sure that Connecticut’s admirable steps toward maintaining the beauty of Connecticut, and conserving our surroundings, as well as the planet we live on, are being fully respected.
According to the Babe Ruth League Facility Planning Guide, (baberuthleague.org), there are Required Minimum Recommendations for Babe Ruth fields: While a Little League field requires a 60-foot baseline and takes up 1.5 acres of school land, a Babe Ruth field, which requires a 90-foot base layout, requires 4.5 acres! There are other considerations: Lighting: new State law puts restrictions on light pollution from public schools…what will the neighbors say? In addition, the extensive building and financing requirements attached to building a Babe Ruth field – on the grounds of a school where the students are too young to even compete on that size field – seems pretty contradictory. Will the Town also provide – at Long Lots – a Little League-sized field where the “home” team could play? Please see Chris Haggerty’s note, above, showing how much the athletic fields in Westport are NOT used. And please compare that to what the Community Garden accomplishes: WE are there every day during the season. We build community. We produce a lot of vegetables and flowers that we share with the food-insecure community. And our gardens extract carbon from the air through our plants, the dirt our plants grow in, and – did you know this? – from the insects that exist in our dirt and compost who LOVE to eat carbon!
So, it is said that the Community Garden could be moved to the wetlands on the other side of the school. Let’s see: what is good to plant in wetlands? Hmm. Taro root, watercress, wild rice, cattails, cranberries – doesn’t sound like sandwich material. And, by the way, what is IN that Muddy Brook water that causes occasional flooding in that area?
There are options on the table that protect the Garden and the Preserve. Let’s continue to focus on that common ground as the solution that is a win-win. New school + preserve the ecological, environmental and community assets that the site represents.